In attendance were:
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Role Play Nexus
[16:06] Lucien Velinov: Hur hur hur
[16:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan snickers
[16:06] Joelle Tardis grins
[16:06] Thaiis Thei claps politely
[16:06] Don Baily: thank you
[16:06] Don Baily smiles
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: Today, we are privileged to receive a talk entitled, "Narrative in Role Play"
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: By Lucien Velinov, avid roleplayer and gamer
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: For those who are new to the Nexus, we provide a place for free exchange of questions, ideas, experiences, tall tales, and assistance regarding role playing in Second Life
[16:07] Lucien Velinov waits for the old jokes.
[16:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan bites her tongue and restrins herself with giggles
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: LL has obliged us with a dark sky, but we recommend setting your viewer to Midnight
[16:07] Joelle Tardis chokes back a comment
[16:08] Cursa Charisma: We have epic soundtracks on the music stream
[16:08] Cursa Charisma: As Lucien has already stated, after his talk, we will have an open discussion on the topic of the day, and on other topics related to RP
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: Also, we will choose our next topic and speaker
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: Without further ado, please join the SL RPG Developers group and the Nexus in welcoming Lucien Velinov!
[16:09] No room to sit here, try another spot.
[16:09] Medea Warwillow gives a round of golf applause
[16:10] PurevilDarkelf Bulan gets out her slingshot ?
[16:10] Map as TP hub: Joelle Tardis, Flotsam Beach is a great example for RP places to learn from
[16:10] The Pirate Life: Joelle Tardis, Yaku Singh and Cursa Charisma charted a new horizon - does pirate RP appeal to you?
[16:11] Lucien Velinov: Alright. First things first. If anyone wants the notecard I wrote in reference to this, let me know now so you can follow along. Most of what I have to say is in reference to what I wrote - though I'll be elaborating a bit.
[16:11] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:11] Thaiis Thei: yes please
[16:12] Baroun Tardis: please, yes
[16:12] Lucien Velinov: Essentially, this began when I read through someone's notecard about what roleplay was and how people should RP. Something designed to be handed out to new people.
[16:12] Lucien Velinov: It sucked, so I wrote my own.
[16:12] Allen Kerensky: has it changed from the 2009-09-17 version?
[16:12] Lucien Velinov: No, that's it.
[16:14] Lucien Velinov: If you want to understand what roleplay essentially is here, you have to understand what you are doing when you roleplay. RP in second life has been often likened to LARPing in a sense. While I understand, I particularly disagree on a point. While there are parallels abound, LARPing involves (generally bad) acting of a sort.
[16:15] Allen Kerensky: LARP = Live Action Role-Playing
[16:15] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:15] Lucien Velinov: But you do not 'act' here. You do not 'act' with your keyboard. You type. You -write-. And that is the core of it. Writing.
[16:16] Lucien Velinov: When you are roleplaying here, you are writing. And for the people that fell asleep in english class, it shows.
[16:17] Lucien Velinov: So in order to examine this concept further in depth, it is neccessary to take a step back and look at the basics of writing. To understand what you are doing, and the proper ways to do it if you want to communicate your character effectively.
[16:19] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:20] Lucien Velinov: Text is the medium through which you have full and complete control over your character and his relation to others in the setting. For the sake of this lecture, I will argue that the whole of your avatar is designed off of what you would normally write about your character - which would go a step in explaining the usual lapses we see in SL as opposed to other pure-text mediums.
[16:20] Thaiis Thei: Say it brother!
[16:21] Baroun Tardis raises an eyebrow
[16:21] Baroun Tardis: SL isn't a pure text medium
[16:22] Lucien Velinov: It's pretty simple. If you can't type properly, you can't communicate what you want in the way that you want - and from the get-go there is already a discrepancy between what you are and what you think you are.
[16:22] Lucien Velinov: If you don't type properly, your roleplay suffers.
[16:22] Thaiis Thei turns to the Baron, my comment was actually to the previous paragraph, but lag made appear too late
[16:23] Thaiis Thei: i.e. the importance of good English skills
[16:23] Thaiis Thei: There are many here who will tell you my typing is a bit.. variable...
[16:23] Lucien Velinov: It's not a pure text medium, but then again the argument is that the visuals simply translate what would otherwise be typed.
[16:23] Baroun Tardis nods to Thailis
[16:24] Baroun Tardis waits, letting Lucien continue before commenting further
[16:25] Joelle Tardis listens
[16:25] Lucien Velinov: And let's face it, the visuals here only do so much. People don't see or read much of what your character us from a flashy outfit, a static series of animations, and possible floating text. The core of it is in what you type and how you communicate your character to others.
[16:25] Don Baily considers whats being said though can not help but to think, "while writing skill is critically important, one can not overestimate the power of imagination. After all, we all use written language day to day basis...to simply communicate."
[16:25] Lucien Velinov: what your character is*
[16:26] Joelle Tardis grins at Don in complete agreement
[16:26] Lucien Velinov: Exactly, Don. That is what you are doing when you roleplay through a chat medium - even an enhanced one such as SL. You are communicating your character to others.
[16:27] Lucien Velinov: And if you fail at english, you fail at communication, you fail at RP.
[16:27] Allen Kerensky: or whatever your native language is.
[16:27] Don Baily raises her eyes looking at Lucien's direction, " indeed! Thus, poor written line could be well part of your character as well. " states calmly
[16:27] Cursa Charisma: *cough* Maya *cough*
[16:27] Medea Warwillow grins
[16:27] Cursa Charisma: English is the common medium of communication on Earth, and in SL
[16:27] Joelle Tardis grins thinking of some interesting rp she has seen useing a mixed meduim of languages
[16:28] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I believe he is talking about those who chose chatspeak over actual typing out of words.
[16:28] Lucien Velinov: Let me run my mouth a bit more before we start talking at the same time. :P
[16:28] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:28] Don Baily nods, " please, Lucien..forgive me...please go on"
[16:28] Joelle Tardis smiles softly
[16:29] Baroun Tardis laughs at Cursa's cough
[16:29] Joelle Tardis hands Cursa a Ricolla
[16:30] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:31] Lucien Velinov: Not too much else to this, as I do not think it is apt to sit the lot of you through a course on basic english and grammar. At it's core I wanted to draw attention to this critical concept in roleplaying - something often neglected because of what we allow the visuals to do for us. The fact that there is slightly less to communicate does not change the means, or otherwise what you are communicating: Your character with respect to other characters as per the setting.
[16:32] Baroun Tardis pauses, wondering if that means Lucien is finished
[16:32] Lucien Velinov: Narriative is something to distinguish. Though I go through the course of that in the card as a sort of refresher. Most commonly, people roleplay in the 3rd Person - for those of you that know what 3rd Person Narriative is.
[16:33] Lucien Velinov: Perhaps I should have typed this out beforehand ~_~
[16:33] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Told ya so.
[16:33] Don Baily blinks
[16:33] Lucien Velinov: In any case, the abridged version: I bring up a point of contention with conflicting narriative styles often seen in RP.
[16:34] Baroun Tardis whispers, "I use third person or /me for things that are quiet, or not normal conversation"
[16:35] Lucien Velinov: 3rd Person Limited and 3rd Person subjective are the de facto norm. The only difference between the two, essentially, is what you are communicating to the others you are writing to.
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: can you give an example of each?
[16:35] Lucien Velinov: In the card I bring up a point of contention with many Para RPers regarding exactly this.
[16:36] Baroun Tardis's wondering if therewil be an example of third person subjective... but then realizes that no one knows what he's wondering, since this is a subjective line of third person text
[16:37] Chibiusa Pinklady slams her head into stone she's sitting on.
[16:37] Joelle Tardis: Baroun if I could read your mind I would happily be offering to let you be subjective at this point
[16:37] Lucien Velinov: Third Person Limited (also called Subjective) is a style that places you in an omniscient role. As Baroun was kind enough to make an example of. That particular style makes you (the reader) privy to information about a character's thoughts, feelings, and otherwise that you wouldn't generally be able to discern.
[16:38] Baroun Tardis whispers in Joelle's ear something that's definately subjective
[16:38] PurevilDarkelf Bulan winces and gives Chibi coffee and tylenol. "Don't do that honey."
[16:38] Don Baily: or perhaps description of the scene ..
[16:38] Allen Kerensky: so... "mindreading"
[16:38] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: "Telepathic broadcast"
[16:38] Joelle Tardis: Pure is she in need of a Physician?
[16:39] Allie thinks, 'I may understand what he means then.'
[16:39] PurevilDarkelf Bulan looks down at her "Nah, mason worker to fix the cracked stone. "
[16:39] Joelle Tardis cusses her english as she forgot to put in a comma
[16:39] Don Baily: why, almost 75% times..you gather dept of the story through the 3rd person observation..this is true in novels and in role playing as well.
[16:40] Lucien Velinov: Third Person Subjective is rather very descriptive. There is alot to write about concerning a character's thoughts, feelings, history, and other things you would not know concerning the character - and indeed, alot of books are often written in that particular style.
[16:40] Joelle Tardis nods again in agreement with Don
[16:41] Don Baily smiles shyly
[16:41] Lucien Velinov: However...When you consider the context of roleplay, the problem becomes frustratingly clear. The fact that your character doesn't read minds, isn't privy to floating text or a history lesson on any given encounter. Alot of what people write in Third Person Subjective is...More or less Irrelevant.
[16:42] Joelle Tardis gazes up at Baroun adoringly, very pleased that others cannot know what she is really thinking at the moment
[16:42] Allen Kerensky: unless they can magically read minds
[16:42] Allen Kerensky: or otherwise employ psionics - so, mindreading outside of what the setting supports
[16:42] Cursa Charisma: "Psionically", Allen
[16:42] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[16:43] Baroun Tardis gazes back to Joelle, smiling, thinking, "But even if it's irrellevant, it's sometimes a good way to give infomration to people new to the situation , so that they have an idea what's going on."
[16:43] Lucien Velinov: Which brings us to Third Person Objective. This is a style (which I prefer) that only communicates the bare-bones essentials. What you can establish with your senses, and nothing beyond.
[16:43] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: What others perceive
[16:43] Don Baily giggles, "aye, you can not read minds of others but can make an observant description of mood for the other person. Again, I say how witty you are to come up brilliant lines that creates flow."
[16:44] Lucien Velinov: Exactly. Though I'll digress, I'm not looking to give a lesson on it. The point is to establish the difference and to encourage people to look back and dig into the style of play they are privy to.
[16:44] Lucien Velinov: There isn't anything 'better' or 'worse' about them. They are both often done right and horribly wrong.
[16:45] Joelle Tardis watches the speaker warily as she has always distrusted anyone with a officer style sidearm of any type
[16:46] Lucien Velinov: Horribly wrong Subjective is generally your big wall of irrelevant text nobody reads - where you manage to determine that the character hasn't actually 'done' anything for you to respond to.
[16:46] Lucien Velinov: Horribly wrong Objective is a non-descriptive one-liner that tells you nothing of interest.
[16:46] Allen Kerensky: Capt. Exposition strikes!
[16:47] Baroun Tardis wonders if that's why people's eye glaze over during his "when I was born ... " speech
[16:47] Joelle Tardis squirms back against Baroun trying to find a comfortable spot on the marble bench
[16:47] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:47] Baroun Tardis pushes one of the pillows under her
[16:48] Joelle Tardis: Thank you dear
[16:48] Lucien Velinov: In this lecture, I want to encourage people to look back at the basics, even if they think they know of them already - and most importantly I wanted to dispell this idea that "Wall of text = good rp"
[16:48] Baroun Tardis smiles and pats her back
[16:48] Joelle Tardis burps gently and looks very embarressed
[16:49] Lucien Velinov: It is never a matter of how much you are communicating. Always -what- you are communicating, and how much of that is relevant to the people you are roleplaying with.
[16:49] Baroun Tardis resolves to get her a cup of goat tears -- those cure everything
[16:49] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:49] Don Baily nods, "can't agree more"
[16:50] Lucien Velinov takes a breath and promptly closes his hands together in an audible, singular 'clap'. "That is the end of it. Hope you're still awake."
[16:50] PurevilDarkelf Bulan has been listening to techno music the whole time
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Lucien!
[16:50] Baroun Tardis: Exactly - finding out all about somoene's past is nice and all, but generally doesn't help with the curent situation of a Gorgon trying to eat you
[16:50] Allen Kerensky: had to stay away to write questions to ask in part 2-3
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: And I am confident everyone is very much awake
[16:50] Don Baily smiles, "very much so. Thank you"
[16:50] Baroun Tardis: Thank you , Lucien.
[16:51] Lucien Velinov: So...Aside from the everyone talking bit, the most that I wanted after presenting this concept is feedback on it.
[16:51] Joelle Tardis: yes Hard Marble does much to help keep one awake
[16:51] Chibiusa Pinklady is napping...
[16:51] Joelle Tardis grins at Cursa
[16:51] Baroun Tardis: I think you make a valid point - understandable , relevant text is important - but I have three counter points.
[16:51] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:51] Thaiis Thei: It wasn't my intention to put you off your stride...
[16:52] Lucien Velinov: By all means, Baroun
[16:52] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: How would you plan to use it to educate the masses who obviously need it. IE those Rpers who give you a wall of useless crap or B [just as bad[ the ones who RP uses 'chat speak'. Information is important , there's a basis for it. how to apply it .
[16:52] Baroun Tardis: First - SL's graphics and animations can convey quite a bit that isn't conveyed in text. In table top RP, thre's a lot of conversation that sets the scene, explains the layout of the locale, etc. SL, that happens in a heartbeat of textlessness
[16:52] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Lucien explained that the genesis of this talk was in a poorly presented "how to write RP" sort of notecard
[16:52] Chibiusa Pinklady: When they aren't failing.
[16:53] Cursa Charisma: How can we more effectively communicate a proper regard for these issues?
[16:53] Baroun Tardis: Second, tabletop RP, there was a lot of use of voice and mannarism to convey what was IC vs OOC, and in the case of the person GMing, often to convey which NPC was talking
[16:53] Don Baily clears her throat, " that is one of the great challange, Cursa. "
[16:53] Baroun Tardis: In SL, that sometimes comes out as word choice and such, which is a deliberate use of poor grammar in some cases
[16:54] Lucien Velinov: Pure brings up the point that I think warrants the core of the discussion - something I do not have an easy answer to. However, let me address these counterpoints real quick.
[16:54] Baroun Tardis: Last, Depending on the setting/method/place - SL can be the dice and much of the menial tasks the GM would handle, which isn't handled in the pure-text collaborative fiction approach
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: OK, let's let Lucien respond to Baroun's points
[16:55] Joelle Tardis: andpeople who feel the need to write 3 paragraphs of text at a time or do not consider it RP make me want to take a nap
[16:57] Joelle Tardis: No matter how good of grammer and sytax they have
[16:57] Joelle Tardis: ok
[16:57] Joelle Tardis: now if I could only type
[16:57] Lucien Velinov: The first point falls into my argument that the information conveyed simply replaces what would otherwise be stated in text, or in tabletop, through conversation. While the setting is an important part of RP, the setting isn't what you are roleplaying. You are roleplaying your -character- with respect to what is conveyed of the setting. Even for all of the trouble that SL's interface saves, it often still requires text or further conversation to detail.
[16:57] Cursa Charisma: Are these all not simply various tools? And any tool can be used as intended, used innovatively, or misused
[16:58] Joelle Tardis hopes everyone gets the gist of her point as she runs to the kitchen to finish dinner in RL
[16:58] Lucien Velinov: The Second point....Well. There is a difference between someone ICly speaking in slang, and someone who can't properly type a legible sentence to describe what the character is doing.
[16:58] Lucien Velinov: This address the latter, not the former.
[16:58] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:00] Lucien Velinov: And I suppose the last point falls under the same argument the first falls under. The visual aids and otherwise are simply, as Cursa stated, tools. Because, let's face it...As I'm demonstrating right now, there are alot of things and alot of reasons to avoid using text when you have a much simpler aid.
[17:02] Lucien Velinov: Though note that unless that aid is essentially a fully detailed and realistic model of what you would describe - you are going to need additional text/conversational description.
[17:02] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:02] Baroun Tardis nods, indicating he's fine if Lucien goes on to Pure's point
[17:03] Allen Kerensky: In IMs, I sent Pure my opinion of the answer to educating the masses, walls of text, and "what I feel and am" RPing: encourage players to switch to active verbs, rather than passive verbs.
[17:03] Lucien Velinov: Right. The major point that sort of slaps everything in the face. We have information...but how do we shove it down the throats of people we want to know it.
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: "Show rather than tell" is an axiom of good writing anyway
[17:04] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Lucien
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: The real issue here is how to effectively get across what we consider to be good practice
[17:05] Allen Kerensky: what is the feeling on titlers and talkers?
[17:05] Baroun Tardis: The first RP sim Joelle drug me into had a class on this - examples, discussion. Much like the talk we're having now... you had to attend to get full privledges in the sim
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Yes, many sims do that
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: My sense is that it's a turn-off
[17:05] Baroun Tardis: Titlers I don't like - the text overflows my screen. Talkers are kinda handy, it makes it easier to know who's talking
[17:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I will give an example if I can on titlers. Where it makes them douschey
[17:06] Cursa Charisma: Please do, Pure
[17:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Outlaw, running from the man... you run behind a building, change your titler but nothing else to say you are someone else. They come along and kick your ass, and you get mad because ou are another person. Fail with a titler.
[17:07] Allen Kerensky: @Baroun note: how to feed HTCS talker through offworld spell, grammar, and style checker?
[17:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Titlers can be informative, but not to be relied on.
[17:07] Baroun Tardis: @Allen: Chuckle. Could.
[17:07] Allen Kerensky: @Pure that's plain bad RP
[17:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: name changers : ie green text.. ok to use. Assuming you use it with a titler so we know who you are.
[17:07] Chibiusa Pinklady twitches slightly.
[17:08] Allen Kerensky: playing Cowboys and Indians and not falling down when shot
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Yeah Allen... I have seen that ALOT in MANY sims.
[17:08] Baroun Tardis nods to Pure, "yeah, if you're going to change person, you should change clothes too. and maybe even shape. enough so people think twice"
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: AND the GMs side with the person who is using bad form because it's their buddy.
[17:08] Chibiusa Pinklady: I'm gonna log before I start overstepping my welcome
[17:08] Chibiusa Pinklady snugs Pure
[17:08] Allen Kerensky: @Pure that's a bad "table" or region - move your RP elsehwere
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And they OKed them to have multiple characters. But never cemented a look. So titlers are good and bad.
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Allen... that's everywhere.
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Anywhere they allow titlers
[17:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Some dumbass abuses it
[17:09] Allen Kerensky: @Pure good thing SL adds more sims then
[17:09] Chibiusa Pinklady: @ Allen: That format makes me want to break your fingers
[17:09] Chibiusa Pinklady: Baaaaai!
[17:09] Allen Kerensky: for the record I hate titlers unless I RP working at mcdonalds where I wear a name badege as part of the uniform
[17:10] Allen Kerensky: what?
[17:10] Baroun Tardis: ok, while on that -- what about "Profile Clairvoyance" ?
[17:10] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: More bad form
[17:10] Allen Kerensky: what is?
[17:10] Baroun Tardis: @
[17:10] Cursa Charisma: One problem is that the viewer defaults to showing av group title and name - shouldn't rp places ask people to turn those to temporary or off?
[17:11] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: When someone reads your RP inforation in you rprofile and uses it.
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: @Baroun - "metagaming"
[17:11] Allen Kerensky: oh good gravy - who decided @ was bad form?
[17:11] Thaiis Thei: well there shoudl be a standard in the sim - re labels
[17:11] Medea Warwillow: Agreed.
[17:11] Don Baily: yes, that is not accepted in any RP sims I have participated in...
[17:11] Baroun Tardis: I've been negative on that format ever since the big battle on Hoth, when we were attacked by @-@'s
[17:11] Allen Kerensky: i see a relevant problem here too =)
[17:11] Allen smiles.
[17:11] Medea Warwillow: There is something to be said for people vying for those titles though. It gives a player a sense of purpose and achievement
[17:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: So how to communicate good Rp form, good RP , and not mindless walls of drivel or one liners.. to everyone in the sims and make them play not like crap?
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: @Medea - I'm not saying anything about having group titles, just about displaying them on the screen during rp
[17:12] Allen Kerensky: adn to not get threatened with having your fingers broken over some custom not everyone likes or some agreement not everyone knows about
[17:12] Thaiis Thei: yes I agree Medea, though it can also lead to metagaming - mostly re people not having met a charachter and yet knowing who they are
[17:12] Thaiis Thei doesn't like the @ thing
[17:13] Joelle Tardis: wellpart of the issue is different people have different definitions of what to them comprises good rp
[17:13] Cursa Charisma: @Thaiis - sorry
[17:13] Cursa Charisma makes a rude sound
[17:13] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:13] Thaiis Thei likes that less
[17:13] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:13] Lucien Velinov: Remember
[17:14] Lucien Velinov: The idea isn't 'good' or 'bad' rp. It's proper form when RPing
[17:14] Allen Kerensky: sounds like a lawfully-aligned person talking
[17:14] Cursa Charisma: More or less, am I correct that the big issue we are talking about is effective presentation of in-group customs and protocols to new players, and acclimatization of same to same?
[17:14] Baroun Tardis: In some cases, that tag's useful - I mean, in a sci-fi sim, your charactor should recognize a Scout Service uniform, since they've lived in that universe all their life.... but the player may not know what the red sunburst on black means
[17:14] Allen Kerensky: form matters not when the entire RP is bad
[17:14] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Ergo, there is a neat way to RP for fun and not have it be mindless drivel and dumbassery.
[17:14] Joelle Tardis: and again different people have different concepts of what comprises good form
[17:14] Cursa Charisma: A community has its own standard practices
[17:14] Allen Kerensky: well, I heard a call earlier on how to educate the masses .. now the discussion is what to educate them on
[17:14] Don Baily: well, to me is if there is a composition in overall..that is a good RP.
[17:15] Cursa Charisma: And limits on deviation
[17:15] Lucien Velinov: Proper grammar and effectively comunicating what you are trying to write is good form. The problem is that there are people who can't even do THAT.
[17:15] Thaiis Thei: somoene got abnned form New Babbage yesterday for exceeding lmits..
[17:15] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I mean I'm all for freeform, but I don't really give a damn about your cahracters shattered past in your head, and if I did I would ask. So how to make a basis in YOUR OWN PR places, and work it up from there?
[17:15] Baroun Tardis: Limits?
[17:15] Don Baily: I don't care if you are one liner..or a paragraph writer.." the first question I ask is how loyal are you to your character voice and persona..does your actions fit your character."
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: adult and gore limits
[17:16] Baroun Tardis: Ah
[17:16] Cursa Charisma nods, "Yes, Gor is one thing, Al Gore quite another"
[17:16] Allen Kerensky: (to Don): well, this is part of why I use a talker - it separates ME from my character and the various modes encourage specific types of messages
[17:16] Cursa Charisma: @Allen - yes, that's definitely one way of doing it
[17:16] Lucien Velinov: There are some sims that don't honor limits.
[17:17] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: \o
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: New Babbage is quite strict
[17:17] Allen Kerensky: i put in a JIRA 3 years ago for DIRECTED messages in SL - and here's what we get the hated @ or (to someone) *sigh*
[17:17] Joelle Tardis: Well I am guilty as sin,I often Have typs and spelling errors
[17:17] Cursa Charisma: Perfect typing on the fly is not realistic
[17:17] Allen Kerensky: spell-checking the internet is as useful as nailing jelly to a tree
[17:17] Baroun Tardis whispers to Joelle, "I kinda like your sins, baby"
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: my bad typing is infamous
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: :)
[17:17] Cursa Charisma: Clarity of intent is what is needed
[17:17] Don Baily: .me smiles, " Allen, I know this is not common practice but I wish it was..IC and OOC should not be in the same channel..that really eliminates alot of problem
[17:17] Joelle Tardis: how-ever I am also considered a very good rper in most genres I Play in
[17:17] Lucien Velinov: The occasional typo and spelling error isn't the problem. It's people that, frankly, don't know how to write.
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: (to Cursa) which is why I would suggest pushing for active verbs
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: (to Don) Emerald viewer has a feature that helps partway - you can set default chat channel number
[17:18] Thaiis Thei: Emerald rocks
[17:19] Thaiis Thei: except for the bloody green edit effect
[17:19] Allen Kerensky: (to Don) if you use a talker, you can set the talker channel as your default and be in character by default.
[17:19] Cursa Charisma: (to Allen) It would behoove one indeed, in terms of clarity and comprehensibility, to be strictly attentive to the use of active, rather than passive, voice as one's contributions are presented in text chat
[17:19] Baroun Tardis: that's nice, I didn't know Emerald did that
[17:19] Thaiis Thei: it has many usefull features
[17:19] Lucien Velinov: The idea of limits seems a bit...'silly' to me. Silly in the sense that you can't reasonably expect people to look up your profile to learn about your character - when they aren't supposed to be using that information in their RP to begin with.
[17:19] Cursa Charisma: Agreed
[17:20] Thaiis Thei: yes that does seem counter intuitive
[17:20] Cursa Charisma: But that's because, Lucien, the games you and I play aren't combat/capture
[17:20] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Thanks for that Luc, I'm zombie atm without a cigarette and I'm too grouchy to be eloquent
[17:20] Baroun Tardis: By the same token, you can always IM the person when they start heading over the line
[17:20] Don Baily: my apology..channel is not the correct word..( failed communication on my part). I meant to say ..where local chat dedicated to only IC and OOC kept in private IMs.
[17:20] Cursa Charisma: (to Don) Yes, that is simple and elegant, if obeyed
[17:20] Lucien Velinov: It's not too hard to to ask for a pause or simply IM the person you are playing with.
[17:20] Don Baily: indeed
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: (to Don) when RP is in progress, that should be an agreed convention - many sims designate area as OOC and all else as IC
[17:21] Joelle Tardis: That also is sometimes difficult when you need to OOC Communicate with several People at once
[17:21] Baroun Tardis nods to Allen, "Good point"
[17:21] Thaiis Thei:
[17:21] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: [[yeah but some sims forbid the ooc and renamers chatters simply for the abuse they]]
[17:21] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: which is why you have people attempt to limit the OOC screwing around to IMs
[17:21] Don Baily: that is true..but also I have been in sims....they called RP and what I call is chatting..*shakes her head*
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: (to Thalis) well, several viewers support that so that you can at least filter out the messages easier after the fact, such as when saving capture logs
[17:22] Lucien Velinov: I remember a while ago that there were were 'OOC' attachments.
[17:22] Baroun Tardis: such things still exist
[17:22] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I hate those -.-
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: those did :OOC name:
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: or some variation
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Titlers, you mean?
[17:22] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: well they used to be seperate a long time ago
[17:22] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: it was an attachment for OOC
[17:22] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: one for your titlers
[17:22] Thaiis Thei: IMs can be used for ooc
[17:22] Lucien Velinov: They spoke on a channel and tossed messages to you - keeping them out of open chat
[17:22] Thaiis Thei: otherwise whats the point of having an only in char in local rule..
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: well, if you own the sim, set the rules - but when it someone else's house you sort of live by their rules - if (( )) OOC is allowed, then tolerance is needed.
[17:23] Lucien Velinov: Something to easily opt in and out of.
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: unless you have many people you're trying to talk to in OOC at once, in which caseIM is messy
[17:23] Thaiis Thei: use a group chat
[17:23] Allen Kerensky: ((oh hell I am on FIRE!))
[17:23] Baroun Tardis laughs
[17:23] Allen Kerensky: now everyone knows - I am not RPing.
[17:23] Allen Kerensky: its a matter of personal taste - like @person in chat
[17:24] Lucien Velinov: Now think of this...
[17:24] Allen Kerensky: legislating personal taste is a downward slope
[17:24] Allen Kerensky: is group chat IC or OOC?
[17:24] Allen Kerensky: I've seen both in SL
[17:24] Thaiis Thei: you can tlegislate personal taste, but you can have accepted, or mandated, standrads for a sim
[17:24] Allen Kerensky: Firefly players use theirs as radio
[17:24] Baroun Tardis: " legislating personal taste is a downward slope" which explains how RL gov't work in a nutshell (sigh)
[17:24] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: That I think most palces set up in their rules.
[17:24] Lucien Velinov: Well firstly, does everyone here understand what I was speaking of?
[17:25] Thaiis Thei: yes!
[17:25] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:25] : Lucien Velinov OOC : Because this isn't what I was mentioning.
[17:25] Baroun Tardis nods
[17:25] Thaiis Thei: that was yes govts are evil
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Thaiis
[17:25] : Lucien Velinov OOC : This appears in open chat and can be just as disruptive as (( )) marks.
[17:25] Medea Warwillow: YEs
[17:25] Thaiis Thei waves the libertarian flag
[17:25] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Of course Luc. Wall of text = not always good RP. Chat speak = bad form
[17:25] Thaiis Thei: you all know what's on the libertarian flag don't you?
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: Perhaps Thaiis would like to give us a talk in the future on "RP as politics"
[17:26] Thaiis Thei: :)
[17:26] Allen Kerensky: this will be the first i've heard that (( commment )) in local chat was also evil
[17:26] Baroun Tardis: We could make a brief summary of these items , kinda like the wall of text in Animal Farm... "(()) Bad. IM Good"
[17:26] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: All ooc in open RP chat is supposed to be evil
[17:26] Allen Kerensky: usually I hear it said "excessive"
[17:26] Baroun Tardis: then post them where people see them when they come into the RP area
[17:26] Cursa Charisma: I have known at least one person who was adamant that parentheticals were evil
[17:26] Don Baily nods her head, " exactly that is the point..cause as we said before..Role Playing is about the story. Now, have you ever read a story where there are lines in (( ))?
[17:26] Thaiis Thei: yes
[17:26] Thaiis Thei: exactly
[17:26] Baroun Tardis: yes, I have
[17:26] Thaiis Thei: I dint mean yes i have
[17:27] Lucien Velinov: The device I mentioned was a sort of 'radio'. Essentially speaking on channel ## (the ooc channel) and transmitting to anyone else that is monitoring.
[17:27] Don Baily looks at Baroun, " who is that writer?"
[17:27] Baroun Tardis: sometimes there's footnotes, which are the same thing
[17:27] Thaiis Thei: I meant yes as an affirmative endorsement of Don's statem,ent
[17:27] Thaiis Thei: bloody lag
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: No matter what we do, if we have any kind of flow at all, the chat log will require editing to become a standard piece of fiction text
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: The point is to have flow, to have a story emerge - editing it for reading by others is secondary
[17:27] Allen Kerensky: well, if we're complaining about form show me the book where everyone writes Firstname Lastname: spoken phrases
[17:27] Allen Kerensky: its all not in book form
[17:28] Don Baily: footnotes are relevant to the story. they provide references and etc. For example this does not (( I gotta run))
[17:28] Allie says, "unless I am talking."
[17:28] Thaiis Thei: Plays do that Allen
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: ah, but this isn't LARP/theater is it? that was the first assertion
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: and, plays are prescripted anyway, not ad-hoc
[17:28] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Thaiis! What we do in SL chat is much more a form of improvisational theater than it is collaborative prose
[17:29] Thaiis Thei: I think it is theatre
[17:29] Baroun Tardis: Yes, Improv is a good parallel
[17:29] Thaiis Thei: exactly cursa
[17:29] Cursa Charisma: Allen, if a transcript is made of an improv theater performance, it would be in that format
[17:29] Don Baily sighs, "yes indeed. it was..though I have difference in opinion."
[17:29] Allen Kerensky: well, a quuestion I had earlier: why use SL at all if animations, avatar dress, and all of that do not actually matter and its "all about the text"
[17:29] Allen Kerensky: sounds to me like missing the boat as much as linden does hosting websites
[17:29] Don Baily: exactly, Allen. Thank you for saying that
[17:30] Baroun Tardis: "AIM" vs "SL"
[17:30] Allen Kerensky: play by snail mail
[17:30] Thaiis Thei: well I dotn agree that it IS all about the text
[17:30] Don Baily: if it is not about acting..then why do you bother to draw distinguish between IC and OOC
[17:30] Lucien Velinov: Would I be an asshole in pointing out that the original topic remains unresolved?
[17:30] Thaiis Thei: not at all
[17:31] Thaiis Thei: but is resolution imperative
[17:31] Thaiis Thei: ?
[17:31] Baroun Tardis: Well..... Do we ever resolve the original topic?
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: We discuss
[17:31] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:31] Lucien Velinov chuckles.
[17:31] Allen Kerensky: the origianl topic being howe to stop everyone in SL from bad RP by speaking their mind in RP text?
[17:31] Baroun Tardis: Actually, I think we always close with "But how do we educate the masses?"
[17:31] Baroun Tardis: and then we wander about
[17:31] Don Baily smiles at Lucien.." I believe some things do not necessarily call for an resolution."
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Well, I think we did talk about "how do we educate?" last time and this time both, yes.
[17:32] Allen Kerensky: one suggestion was "encourage using active verbs" - another "use talkers that encourage different styles"
[17:32] Baroun Tardis nominates "But How Do We Educate The Masses?" to be the official slogan of the RP Nexus
[17:32] Lucien Velinov: It's not about speaking their mind in RP text. There are all manner of ways to do things wrong. The idea is to find a solution to do things right.
[17:32] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:32] Thaiis Thei: Right (TM)
[17:32] Allen Kerensky: you can't legislate human nature - in a minute someone new will sign up and you start all over with teaching
[17:32] Thaiis Thei: I thougth it was about arriving at an accepted consensus and then sticking to it
[17:32] Baroun Tardis: and the other side is "right" according to who's definition of "right"
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: it also sounds like a lot of opinion about what is and is not allowed in local drifts from sim to sim
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: or person to person
[17:33] Thaiis Thei: that just comes down to good sim management
[17:33] Cursa Charisma: It's about exchanging ideas and hopefully gleaning some we can put into beneficial practice where we are active
[17:33] Thaiis Thei: in letting people know what is the standrad in one's sim
[17:33] Cursa Charisma: wb Pure
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: clea clear on use of local, IMs, and group chat to all players
[17:33] Don Baily agrees with Cursa
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: is local IC only, is ((text)) allowed
[17:33] PurevilDarkelf Bulan kicks internet connection
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: and players need to put that in their "Good RP" Picks
[17:34] Allen Kerensky: is group chat IC, is group chat OOC, is (( allowed in grouP))
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: OK, I think we did get so far last time as to mention that lectures, rules, notecards, and clenching/enforcement tend not to nurture active and amenable rp
[17:34] PurevilDarkelf Bulan kicks it alot
[17:34] Baroun Tardis: Still think a standard "Local RP Rules" checklist would be cool
[17:34] Allen Kerensky: well, if you want to have cities, you have to build roads
[17:34] Lucien Velinov: I swear, if we don't get a solution, I'm going to rig the next speaker with the topic: Finding a solution
[17:34] Allen Kerensky: if you want to set expectations, you have to communicate them
[17:34] Lucien Velinov: And there won't be a lecture
[17:34] Don Baily laughs
[17:34] PurevilDarkelf Bulan votes the solution be a baseball bat
[17:34] Thaiis Thei: Don't expect 'a' solution Lucien
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: As with how we write our prose, "show rather than tell" is a basic rule of effective teaching
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: i mean come on, we saw a real example here
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: indeed
[17:35] Joelle Tardis: How-ever Hosting in the sim you play in a weekly rp class is one way to help educate
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: I use @username as a BBS habit from 15+ years ago
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: and get my fingers threatened over it?
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: Yuo do?
[17:35] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Problem with RP classes, the ones you WANT to learn it..never show up
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: how dod
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: odd
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: honestly, that's your entire problem in a nutshell example
[17:35] Cursa Charisma nods to Pure
[17:35] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: You get the ones who can use help. but the ones who steamroll chat with crap... never do
[17:35] Don Baily: do you all RP here?
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: This is a sociological problem
[17:36] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Yeah ..it's called the head up the ass syndrome
[17:36] Cursa Charisma nods to Thaiis
[17:36] Thaiis Thei: it is really "how to build a cohesive society"
[17:36] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: it's common in alot of RP sims
[17:36] Allen Kerensky: [17:09] Chibiusa Pinklady: @ Allen: That format makes me want to break your fingers
[17:36] Cursa Charisma: Ah, HUA, yes, I've heard of it
[17:36] Allen Kerensky: needless to say, that person is muted
[17:36] Lucien Velinov: I'm not expecting to pull the Alchemist's Stone of Roleplaying out of our asses here. But seriously. Our group contains people that either manage RP meters or are in positions of influence in many an RP sim. (and everyone else, you're special too)
[17:36] Thaiis Thei: Allen i think that highlights another common thing
[17:36] Lucien Velinov: I'm hoping to see ideas proposed and experimented with
[17:36] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:36] Thaiis Thei: people use expression and then others take them to heart
[17:37] Thaiis Thei: a lot of that is cultural language differences
[17:37] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: There are solutions.
[17:37] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Idea? \o
[17:37] Allen Kerensky: if I don't know you, and you say something directly to me, and it involves breaking my fingers, how am I supposed to take it other than literally.
[17:37] Allen Kerensky: it *is* about the plaintext
[17:37] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Allen, try this. Midol.
[17:37] Thaiis Thei: I think Allen, that ones needs to adopt a relaxed psoture
[17:37] Thaiis Thei: there is so much cultural stuff that we take for granted'
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: OK, an idea I mentioned last time: distinct RP zones in a venue. Entry is by group tag. Tags are awarded after a probationary period demonstrating appropriate mastery of desired behavior
[17:38] Thaiis Thei: we all live in unique subjective universes and we all wlak around imagingin that others share those universes
[17:38] Thaiis Thei: but they really dont
[17:38] Don Baily: I say mentoring sessions for the new comers
[17:39] Cursa Charisma: Don, do you mean assigning individual mentors to newcomers? That is a very valid approach - if you have the mentors handy
[17:39] Joelle Tardis nods at allen and personally I have found that being tolerant of people who are different than your-self and making suggestions privatley to newcomes is more effective than anything else
[17:39] Don Baily: regardless they are experienced or not...each RP sim has its own cultural..just like in RL
[17:39] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Well everyone has an idea right? Go off to your sims, think of that one person you want to see RP better. And attempt your idea on them ? Give it a week see how they improve? That's what they teach in my leadership classes.
[17:39] Don Baily: yes, Cursa. I mean if you have senior players in the sim..they can take turns
[17:40] Cursa Charisma: Don, got it, but in practical terms, are they going to have the time all the time to do that?
[17:40] Joelle Tardis: and yes some sims are more about building a community than others
[17:40] Lucien Velinov: Excuse me
[17:40] Cursa Charisma: Hm?
[17:40] Lucien Velinov: Moment of Silence for Legend of Zelda (on radio)
[17:41] Don Baily: well, it is time consuming. That's for sure
[17:41] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:41] PurevilDarkelf Bulan enables radio for it
[17:41] Cursa Charisma: If a venue is parceled out according to player "level", then all anyone need do is rp, and the senior people can rp in lower-level places when there are n00bs to be shown the ropes
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: Less time-consuming
[17:42] Baroun Tardis: depends on how big the venue is
[17:42] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And you always have people on sim when noobs arrive to help them?
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: And the incentive is there for new players to advance in leel
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: *level
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Baroun, but if we use 1 sim as a standard
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: (though even this parcel could be divided easily enough into 2 or 3 spaces)
[17:42] Joelle Tardis: and well I can thinkof one person in particular that when he first came tomy sim was a poor rper and a pain in the backside
[17:43] Cursa Charisma: You are lucky, Joelle
[17:43] Thaiis Thei: I have go.
[17:43] Thaiis Thei: Pleasure to meet you all
[17:43] Cursa Charisma: May your choices be interesting, Thaiis
[17:43] Joelle Tardis: but over the last six months has grown to be one of the stronger in my sim
[17:43] Baroun Tardis: Stay save, Thaiis
[17:44] Thaiis Thei: Thnak you Lucien
[17:44] Joelle Tardis: there are several but he is one in paticular as he was one of the worst
[17:44] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: As you said, 6 months.
[17:44] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: It takes much time for people to change
[17:44] Don Baily raises on her feet slowly, " Pleasure to meet you and I will say I am quiet impressed by the effort..I have been in SL for awhile and this is the first time I have seen a discussion platform regarding role playing. I thank you, Lucien."
[17:44] Joelle Tardis: but just tolerance, curtesey and others setting a good example allowed him to grow
[17:44] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: RPing isn't easy, and people form bad habits in a matter of days and one habit takes weeks to change.
[17:45] Don Baily waves goodbye
[17:45] Lucien Velinov: It's like any vencue involving playing with other people.
[17:45] Baroun Tardis: Night Don
[17:45] Joelle Tardis waves at Don
[17:45] Lucien Velinov: You only get better if you play with people better than you
[17:45] Don Baily: goodnight all.
[17:46] Lucien Velinov: Again, not promoting the idea of something arbitrarily better or worse. I'm using proper form as a standard.
[17:46] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Lucien
[17:46] Cursa Charisma: But that presupposes consensus on a variety of customs and practices
[17:47] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I think it's lack of knowledge as well for Rpers. Most walk into sims and 'I wanna be a cowboy!" and that's it. They know nothing else.
[17:47] Cursa Charisma: If we do presuppose them, yes, there is a clear need for conventions
[17:47] Lucien Velinov: I don't get it. Proper grammar isn't really a matter of debate.
[17:47] Cursa Charisma: Pure, you're right that many people "stumble" into RP in SL without a clue
[17:47] Joelle Tardis: Yes for instance in our Sim Rules it states that we do not incourage chat speak
[17:47] Joelle Tardis: that over use may result in your being asked to leave
[17:47] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: As for bad grammer, that I blame players on who don't correct it when they see it.
[17:48] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: When seen, smack someone on the fingers. It works.
[17:48] Cursa Charisma: Teaching by example is key
[17:48] Lucien Velinov: Think of it as learning to operate a weapon. First you learn how to shoot it. THEN you learn what to shoot at.
[17:48] Cursa Charisma: Nowadays, most people do *not* learn proper usage in school
[17:48] Lucien Velinov: Same with RP. People need to learn how to write, THEN you can focus on what they are writing.
[17:48] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Except you have to do both at once or face a metagamer.
[17:48] Joelle Tardis: and honestly if anyone else has the time and to me rudeness to be the grammer police more power to them
[17:49] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: or worse, someone who is clueless on all sides. And leaves
[17:49] Lucien Velinov: Yeah...And let's not lie here, this task is going to suck.
[17:49] Cursa Charisma: (to Joelle) Yes, as I say, example rather than enforcement
[17:49] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Grammar I am ok with, I'm not stickler for punctuaion, I won't lie I slept through english class.
[17:49] Lucien Velinov: ~_~
[17:49] Joelle Tardis grins
[17:49] Baroun Tardis: Example, Encouragement
[17:50] Baroun Tardis: praise when they do what you like
[17:50] Lucien Velinov: Like I said...There is a difference between a few typos and mispellings; and garbage that takes more effort than it should to read.
[17:50] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: BUT , I do alot fo reading and I work with people alot. I always tell them, type how you speak. If you speak like a moron, you will be treated as such. When at work, if you leave me a note 'callin out 4 2mrw."
[17:50] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I throw it out, then write you up for being an idiot.
[17:50] Lucien Velinov: lol
[17:50] Joelle Tardis laughs
[17:50] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I GET text messages like that
[17:51] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: sik, not work 2mrw. call boss 4 me?
[17:51] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: im like did you have an aneurism?
[17:51] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: on here, same thing, type itout/
[17:51] Joelle Tardis: well I guess I am lucky because most of the people I deal with seem to be quite bright
[17:51] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: if you are a slow typist, then you can use one or two liners. It's OK
[17:51] Lucien Velinov: While I'm wanting to encourage proper and quality RP (hell we all are), what I don't want to do is turn this into a witch hunt against any kind of rp we simply don't like for any trivial reason
[17:51] Joelle Tardis: and the few that are not are usally either not native english speakers
[17:52] Joelle Tardis: or are teens who stole a parents credit card
[17:52] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I find that the ones who are not native english speakers put more effort into it.
[17:52] Cursa Charisma: Each RP group is going to have it's own concept and core people who define, tacitly or explicitly, the custom and practice
[17:52] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: They try a little harder to get what they want to say across
[17:52] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: But some people are lazy or trying too hard -.-
[17:53] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: THAT is what I would like to see change. And what Lucien babbled about earlier.
[17:54] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:54] Joelle Tardis: yes some try and in our Sim we have a native Russian Speaker who does a better job than many native english speakers there, how-ever I often deal with Native Spanish and German SPeakers who it can be difficult to follow
[17:54] Joelle Tardis: how-ever often there imagination and effort is well woth a little effort to follow
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: Yes, it's not so much how effective their English is when the first join as much as whether it's worth the effort to understand them
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: *they first join
[17:55] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I think alot fof people forget that it's ok to screw up, it's ok to use quick one or two liners, andit's ok to have fun and not be so serious so long as, you stick with actually RPing and not drag your life into the open chat while people play. RP should.for all intents and purposes...be fun.
[17:56] Baroun Tardis: yes, FUn is the goal
[17:56] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Pure, the goal is to have fun - and people can and *should* go elsewhere when it's not
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: Drama happens when people get overcommitted to a particular group or venue and get frustrated when things don't go exactly as they wish
[17:57] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And alot of it happens when your 'seasoned Rpers' get uppity on how awesome they are, and forget they were a nooblet RPer too
[17:57] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:57] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And forget someone taught them
[17:57] Joelle Tardis grins and nods at her
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: OK, so is my idea of separate parcels in a sim for player levels just dumb or what?
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: Or should I explain further?
[17:58] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Sounds moer like a military set up .
[17:58] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Or if you have your castles from the village from the outlands.
[17:58] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:58] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: where you would have players advance.
[17:58] Baroun Tardis: I think your statement has a lot of amiguties - what do you mean by "player levels" ?
[17:58] Joelle Tardis: well It would be difficult to manipulate and make a reality I think Cursa
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Well, if you had just 2 parcels - the n00b zone and the rest of the sim, that wouldn't be hard
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Group members only in the main parcel
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Easy to do
[18:00] Baroun Tardis: What about experienced players from other sims ?
[18:00] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: It's a decent enough idea, but hard for most sim owners to execute given the current finanacial state of things.
[18:00] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:00] Baroun Tardis: Firefly, Gor, etc have multiple sims of same setting with many/most of the folks being experienced
[18:00] Baroun Tardis: rough to lock folks out
[18:01] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: As well as, I might be experienced in other places, why would I wnt to come to another sim and prove myself to people to be allowed to wander and explore and see if the sim is even for me?
[18:01] Cursa Charisma: Baroun, you have a probationary period with a mentor or whatever and invite any player into the group when his adaption to local custom is vouched for
[18:01] Cursa Charisma: The relative size of the group-only zone is flexible
[18:01] Joelle Tardis: Well thats at least Group-wise in away what we do
[18:01] Cursa Charisma: And experienced players know how to alt-cam
[18:02] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Myself, I go to sims, and will wander for a while before interacting with people. I like to watch and see what I'm getting into.
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: I am saying that model players *should* rp in the n00b zone as examples
[18:02] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:02] Baroun Tardis: Always good to scope things out
[18:02] Joelle Tardis: as do I
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Pure
[18:02] Joelle Tardis: So as long as they behave and do not grief, anyone is welcome
[18:02] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: but why force people to stay in an area when teir level of RP is good and they WASNT to move up but are forced to wait? that's frustrating as having a meter that doesn't work.
[18:03] Joelle Tardis: but to be part of the Group takes becoming part of the community
[18:03] Cursa Charisma: Let me clarify, Pure. The "open" zone would have RP going on. As soon as an experience new player can interact with a group member, the latter can say, "Yes, you're cool" and invite him into the group
[18:03] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: That sounds a bit cliquish
[18:03] Cursa Charisma: *experienced new player
[18:04] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And more like what I see going on in places now with their 'groups'
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: It's far more welcoming than interviews and lectures and assigned reading
[18:04] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Where they hide in some lair or base all the time and RP with only those they want to recruit.
[18:04] Baroun Tardis nods to Pur
[18:04] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Again it has a good basis.
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Pure, that's another question - the distinction between open and closed communities
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: how often do they come live in the NBZ (NewBZone)
[18:05] Cursa Charisma: Baroun, from the standpoint of experienced players, they know what they may encounter in each zone, so their suspension of disbelief, their immersion, need not be disrupted
[18:05] Cursa Charisma: When you or I are not in the mood to handle n00bs, we stay out of the open zone
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: When we're our normal generous welcoming selves, we do rp in the open zone
[18:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: But how is that fair to the players you have assigned to go work there? Or whta do you do when no one wants to deal with them?
[18:06] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:06] Joelle Tardis: wellhonestly unless you are completley new to a genre most people do know the basics of the RP sim they are visiting
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Assigned!?
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: I don't believe in assigning jobs
[18:06] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Then who sits in the newbie zone and teaches?
[18:06] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: When you don't feel like it
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Teach by example
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Not lecture
[18:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Butyou don't feel like it today.
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: And I usually am happy to do that
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: But not always, right
[18:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: So who would do it then?
[18:07] Joelle Tardis: because fact is Cursa most people will not
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: You would, Joelle, I would
[18:07] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: That's 2 people... who are there always to help everyone who steps into your sim?
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: It's not necessary for *every* high-level member to be outgoing and friendly with n00bs
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: It's only necessary for a critical mass of such people to do so
[18:07] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: But you can't lead by example if it is only 2 and when you feel like it.
[18:08] Cursa Charisma: And I'm only talking about their doing what they do right now
[18:08] Joelle Tardis: But if there is not a lot of interaction with them, they will just go someplace there is
[18:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:08] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Exactly.
[18:08] Cursa Charisma: That's why I'd have an incentive as a player to engage with new people
[18:09] Baroun Tardis: like ?
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: In a sim I was active in earlier this year, I played the tailor
[18:09] Joelle Tardis: well newcomers can visit anyplace in our Sim
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: I had a stall in the city square
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: I was de facto the greeter for the sim
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: In practice, I ended up rping with most of the new people who came in
[18:09] Joelle Tardis: and I have 5 or 6 people who will take noobs under wing and educate them and teach them the ropes
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: and the people who were more "clenchy" about things demanded lectures and classes - and I watched large numbers of promising newcomers turned off and driven away by that
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Joelle
[18:10] Joelle Tardis: but as well as the day to day rp interaction we also hold a lot of IC and OOC Events
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: If your community is active, you will always have senior members who want it to be sustained
[18:10] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:10] Joelle Tardis: to draw in new people, let them get to know our people and see if they fit
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: It's a click of the mouse to open "closed" parcels for specific events
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: By all means, have events where even n00b players or guests can join rp in the "sanctum"
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I hate the idea of closing parcels off for anything. I remember being in sims where they had sections closed off for certain groups and those groups never left the confines
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: because they could RP without the noobs interfering
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Their loss, Pure
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Actually
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: it was the sims loss
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: We lost alot of ood players
[18:12] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: good*
[18:12] Lucien Velinov: Yes, I agree with that.
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Because once one group was allowedf to be exclusive
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Sims die all the time because of turning off good players
[18:12] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: they ALL wanted that right
[18:12] Lucien Velinov: By the way, back
[18:13] Cursa Charisma: wb, Lucien
[18:13] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: You weren't permitted to shut down a section only for certain Rpers
[18:13] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: without the rest demanding the same
[18:13] Baroun Tardis: I'll be AFK a bit
[18:13] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: turned into a shit fight. Everyone hating eveyrone and no one Rped together
[18:14] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Lucien knows what I'm talking about
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: Pure, I'm not talking about anything being closed. I absolutely agree that *every* space and role has to be achievable by anyone who plays and earns it
[18:14] Lucien Velinov: Oh man...
[18:14] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: yes and who gives them the 'ok thumbsup you earned it'
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: If there is a clique with special privileges that nobody new can aspire to, the thing will fail
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: You have to have a system
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: There are several approaches
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: You mentioned the military: anyone above a certain rank can promote anybody up to one rank below himself
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: Or just time - you rp here for a month, you go up in level
[18:15] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I gather i hate the idea of shutting people from areas since I saw it myself in several sims
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: Pure, I agree with you if new people can *never* get into those area
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: *areas
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: What I'm suggesting is an incentive for people to be able to get into all areas
[18:16] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: But what it sounds like is you are sectioning new players off from the rest of the sim.
[18:16] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: until you can pick and choose and determine they they are worthy of the roleplay of the place.
[18:17] Lucien Velinov: If you give them hurdles to jump, they'll probably be turned to a place without hurdles
[18:17] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:17] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I like to challenge people. But saying, you can't cross this line without passing a test. isnt what people are here for. :/
[18:17] Cursa Charisma: OK, why do people play MMOs?
[18:17] Cursa Charisma: Why do they camp and farm and grind?
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: To go up levels
[18:18] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: except here
[18:18] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: most sims are turning into freeform roleplay
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: You don't say to new people, "you *can't* do this or go here"
[18:18] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: people want you to entertain them
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: You say, "you *can* do A and B, and we welcome you to earn C and D"
[18:19] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: I have seen sims do this andhad it blow up .
[18:19] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: A rare few might make success but again, they were military sims. Or they had sections like castles
[18:20] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: And were exrtemely well staffed with greeters, and players who were there to teach
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: Ah, but greeters and teaching *aren't* RP
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: I'm saying, cut down that stuff to a minimum and make more of it RP
[18:20] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Neithe is shutting people away from your seasoned players
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: Seasoned players should play in the open zone
[18:20] Joelle Tardis: Well Cursa a lot of people here left MMO's because they did not like the "grind"
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: Much or even most of the time
[18:21] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Season players do not usually play in open zones either
[18:21] Cursa Charisma doesn't play MMOs for that reason, hehe
[18:21] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Why play with lowly newbies when you can be withthe big people as you earned your right to be
[18:21] Baroun Tardis: rough ont he newbs
[18:21] Cursa Charisma: If the A and B that are in the open zone remain relevant to their RP
[18:21] Baroun Tardis: so places with ocmmonly needed items ?
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Baroun, if you have your harvesting areas open-zone, then your experienced people are going to rp there
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Right?
[18:22] Lucien Velinov: Err...
[18:22] Baroun Tardis: If it's a material they need
[18:22] Baroun Tardis: yes
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: And if a n00b appears and an experienced harvester can get the stuff he wants by asking/paying a n00b to farm with him...
[18:23] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: Why do that when your alt is a click away to harvest while you go run the vaccuum and cook lunch?
[18:23] Baroun Tardis doesn't like alts
[18:23] Lucien Velinov: You don't want to turn playing into 'Work'
[18:23] Cursa Charisma: That's a matter for scripting
[18:23] Cursa Charisma: You script your stuff to encourage player interaction
[18:24] Cursa Charisma: MMO scripting sucks
[18:24] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: oh feckola. I have to go shower and get ready for work. -.-
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: well..
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: well....
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: I do a lot of scripting
[18:24] PurevilDarkelf Bulan makes Luc go to work for her
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: Night Pure
[18:24] Cursa Charisma: Baroun does good scripting
[18:24] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:24] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: \o ninis .
[18:24] Cursa Charisma: Pure, thanks for coming and hope to see you again
[18:24] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: sorry to dash, RL -.-
[18:25] PurevilDarkelf Bulan: try to make it to the next one
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: Oops, we haven't chosen next week's speaker and topic!
[18:25] Baroun Tardis: back when I played in SWG, I used to hire newbs as "miners" - I paid slightly mroe than market to help the newbs out, and taught them how to find things
[18:25] Lucien Velinov: SL isn't an MMO
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: RIght
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: And shouldn't try to be
[18:25] Baroun Tardis: it isn't? Lucien?
[18:25] Baroun Tardis scratches his head
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: OK, we need to define our terms
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: SL is a medium analogous to the WWW; MMOs or anything else can be constructed using it
[18:26] Baroun Tardis: there's more than 1 of us, so that'd be "multiplayer" . We're online. .... and I just had chocolate mouse cake, so I'm moving toward "massive"
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: SL is not a game, Baroun
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: Games can be made inside it
[18:26] Lucien Velinov: Roleplaying inherently isn't a game.
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: It's a game if it has rules, Lucien
[18:26] Baroun Tardis nods to Cursa - "SL is not an MMORPG.... SL is a MMOGR -- Gaming Environment"
[18:26] Baroun Tardis: MMOGE
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: We are talking about it as such, yes, Baroun
[18:27] Lucien Velinov: Life has rules, doesn't mean it's a game, Cursa.
[18:27] Baroun Tardis: Roleplaying is a game --- "play"->"Game"
[18:27] Baroun Tardis: life's a game.... the stakes are just pretty high
[18:27] Lucien Velinov: Eh...Bad.
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: An activity pursued for entertainment with rules and goals is a game
[18:28] Lucien Velinov: Then you're defeating the purpose of calling it a game if you drown the definition like that.
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Oh?
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: The goal of most role-playing games as we would see them is to collaboratively create a fun story
[18:29] Lucien Velinov: Because there is a -clear- and definable difference between interacting in a freeform roleplaying community, and playing an MMO.
[18:29] Lucien Velinov: Trying to blur that line is folly
[18:29] Cursa Charisma: Using agreed conventions that are clearly rules
[18:29] Baroun Tardis: uh, depends on the MMO
[18:29] Baroun Tardis: and the players in your group
[18:29] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:29] Cursa Charisma: And "freeform" is too vague a term
[18:29] Baroun Tardis: Once upon a time, I had good contacts with the SWG Dev Team, and got them to help me create adventures for our city.....
[18:29] Cursa Charisma: "Text-based", or "primarily text-based" is a clearer term
[18:29] Lucien Velinov: No. That there are roleplayers in an MMO doesn't make the MMO a freeform roleplaying platform.
[18:30] Cursa Charisma: MMOs are not freeform rp platforms, agreed
[18:30] Lucien Velinov: Freeform means without meters and mechanics to guide the RP.
[18:30] Baroun Tardis: Depends on the amount of freedom you have in them
[18:30] Cursa Charisma: But people can *use* them that way
[18:30] Lucien Velinov: That doesn't mean that an RP community is going to crop up under an MMO.
[18:31] Baroun Tardis: unless the players make on
[18:31] Baroun Tardis: one
[18:31] Cursa Charisma: OK, so, Lucien, iiuc, by "freeform rp", you mean improv theater per se
[18:31] Lucien Velinov: That does not mean you can emulate an MMO in second life and expect an RP community to spontaneously sprout in it.
[18:31] Lucien Velinov: Not theater. No acting.
[18:31] Lucien Velinov: It's roleplaying without mechanics.
[18:31] Baroun Tardis: You can't expect an RP Community to sprout anywhere, without the effort of sowing the garden, watering, and weeding
[18:31] Lucien Velinov: Have...you guys done that before?
[18:31] Cursa Charisma: But it's a 3d audiovisual representation with user-constructed sets
[18:31] Baroun Tardis: oh, and you need fertiziler
[18:31] Cursa Charisma: It's a stage
[18:32] Baroun Tardis: Have I gotten an RP comminityu to sprout? Yes, yes I have
[18:32] Lucien Velinov: Cursa, it's pretty graphics to look at. However in the end, you're still just staring at words on the screen and typing.
[18:32] Cursa Charisma: I have done pure text-based collaborative fiction that was called a role-playing game, yes
[18:32] Cursa Charisma: Lucien, it could be done with voice chat and no typing at all
[18:32] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:33] Cursa Charisma: SL is a stage, not a page
[18:33] Lucien Velinov: Then it's gimp Larping
[18:33] Lucien Velinov: and that is another subject.
[18:33] Cursa Charisma: You can *use* SL for text-focused rp, definitely
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: But it's not in any way inherently indicated
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: And personally, I am a big fan of text
[18:34] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:34] Joelle Tardis: or like some-of us you can use, text, dress, enviroment and voice and animations all combined
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: But I feel strongly that SL as a medium strongly indicates use of all mechanisms
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Joelle!
[18:35] Cursa Charisma: (all except Voice - it kills immersion)
[18:35] Joelle Tardis: well I do Radio so...
[18:35] Cursa Charisma wouldn't be able to handle LARP
[18:35] Joelle Tardis: and yes we RP there as well
[18:35] Cursa Charisma: Live improv?
[18:36] Cursa Charisma: You do live improv radio, Joelle?
[18:36] Joelle Tardis: impro and we have even done some Radio Plays
[18:36] Cursa Charisma: Radio plays are different - pre-scripted
[18:36] Joelle Tardis: Yes
[18:36] Joelle Tardis: to both of you
[18:36] Cursa Charisma: I have no objection there, hehe
[18:36] Lucien Velinov: hold on a sec
[18:37] Cursa Charisma: But, frankly, far fewer people are going to be palatable voice actors than avatar-players
[18:37] Baroun Tardis: We've done improv radio
[18:37] Baroun Tardis: we've done RP in SL Voice, which was OK, but laggy, and not everyne has, so we dropped to text
[18:37] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:38] Joelle Tardis: as wellas we stream music, do live talk shows in SL and book readings, Narrate Live RP Events and in general tried to add to Rp immersion and fun
[18:38] Cursa Charisma: I've done radio and voice acting, but don't see lots of people being comfortable and able, so it would be far more limited in appeal than avatar play
[18:38] Baroun Tardis: the radio narration of Live RP Events has been a hoot thouh
[18:38] Baroun Tardis: though
[18:38] Cursa Charisma: Nice
[18:39] Cursa Charisma: That sounds fun
[18:39] Joelle Tardis: yes its not intended to be a alternative but a additive
[18:39] Cursa Charisma: A designated Narrator?
[18:39] Baroun Tardis: sometimes funny as hell
[18:39] Cursa Charisma: (to Joelle) A complement - nice
[18:39] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:39] Joelle Tardis: yes
[18:39] Baroun Tardis: Having a "radio person" at somespecial RP event, being a reporter, so people can lsiten in
[18:40] Cursa Charisma: And see, doing that sort of thing in an open area where new people can come in and watch and listen is great
[18:40] Baroun Tardis: We did an "Archery Contest" , like in Robin Hood... and had an anouncer describing, calling the scores, etc
[18:41] Baroun Tardis: people kept coming in, wanting to watch, some to play
[18:41] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:41] Cursa Charisma: Nice
[18:41] Cursa Charisma: Very nice
[18:41] Joelle Tardis: once again a combination of text and enviroment and several other aspects of SL tools
[18:42] Baroun Tardis: Or the "MicroClimate Survey", with ... darn, I forget who, running from the Sandworm
[18:42] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:43] Cursa Charisma: Poor Allen thought it was human v worm , and was unhappy to be shot from cover
[18:44] Baroun Tardis: First time we ran it, one of the players came up wiht the idea of using themselves as bait to lure the worms from the targets..... so he was running all over, the worm chasing him, dodging and circling and such
[18:44] Baroun Tardis: Really funny
[18:44] Cursa Charisma: Nice
[18:46] Lucien Velinov: Alright, guys...I think I'm going to call it for a bit.
[18:46] Lucien Velinov: Have we decided on next week's topic?
[18:46] Cursa Charisma: We have not
[18:46] Baroun Tardis shrugs
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: Joelle, would you be able to give us a talk next Sunday?
[18:47] Joelle Tardis: SUreon What Subject?
[18:47] Joelle Tardis: lol
[18:47] Joelle Tardis: Sorry
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: We discussed a couple last time
[18:47] Joelle Tardis: Sure
[18:47] Joelle Tardis: What subject would you like?
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: 1) "There is Gor and then there is Gor"
[18:48] Cursa Charisma: 2) Running successful sims
[18:48] Joelle Tardis: ok
[18:48] Joelle Tardis: Let go with # 2
[18:48] Joelle Tardis laughs
[18:49] Joelle Tardis: because #1 will take more work and I won't cut into anniversary celebration to write it up
[18:49] Joelle Tardis grins at her hubby
[18:49] Baroun Tardis: lol
[18:49] Baroun Tardis: yeah, next weekend is big for us
[18:49] Cursa Charisma: OK
[18:49] Cursa Charisma: So many sims come and go
[18:49] Joelle Tardis: But I promise to do a Good Talk on Gor sometime soon
[18:50] Cursa Charisma: So if you can give your experience on having them break even on money and remain stable on community, it would be great
[18:50] Cursa Charisma: And yes, we'll wait for the Gor
[18:50] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[18:50] Joelle Tardis: I can do that
[18:50] Joelle Tardis grins
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: Great
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: What title would you like?
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: "Sustainable RP Sims"?
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: "My Sims Don't Fail"
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: ?
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[18:51] Joelle Tardis: That will work
[18:51] Joelle Tardis: Sustainable
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: OK
[18:51] Joelle Tardis: I won't tempt fate
[18:52] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:52] Joelle Tardis smiles
[18:52] Cursa Charisma: Lucien, I want to thank you on behalf of the Nexus and the RPG Dev group
[18:52] Baroun Tardis: Thank you!
[18:52] Cursa Charisma: We really appreciate your talk and patience with the format and the discussion
[18:53] Cursa Charisma: The transcript will be valuable as always in allowing each speaker's words to be "heard" clearly, where that often doesn't happen in the rough and tumble of live chat
[18:53] Joelle Tardis nods
[18:54] Joelle Tardis: and we are a out-spoken and oppionated bunch
[18:54] Cursa Charisma: We are already getting requests from RP venues to post our transcripts for their own members' benefit
[18:54] Baroun Tardis: /e chuckles
[18:54] Baroun Tardis: Oh, that should be a hoot
[18:55] Baroun Tardis: Pass them out everywhere, and someday I'm going to get kicked out of a sim on arrivial : "It's that smart-ass Baroun who makes annoying comments! Eject him!"
[18:55] Cursa Charisma: Heheh
[18:55] Baroun Tardis: Alhtough - put me on the lsit some time down the road for an HTCS demo
[18:55] Cursa Charisma: Good
[18:56] Joelle Tardis: Yes!!!
[18:56] Cursa Charisma: A demo is the way to present HTCS
[18:56] Cursa Charisma: People didn't get it at all when you talked about it
[18:56] Cursa Charisma: Have to show
[18:56] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:56] Baroun Tardis: Yeah - you've used it in play
[18:56] Baroun Tardis: couple other folks
[18:56] Cursa Charisma: Yes, those of us who have used it understand it
[18:56] Baroun Tardis: most people are like , "Heh, another meter, pheh!"
[18:57] Cursa Charisma: Right
[18:57] Cursa Charisma: I was just going to say
[18:57] Cursa Charisma: If we tell Lucien, "Baroun's meter is better", he'll shrug
[18:57] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:57] Cursa Charisma: What we *can* point out is that it is a *Creativity* meter, not a *Combat* meter
[18:57] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:58] Baroun Tardis: Lucien, I think, dislikes anything other than true, pure-quill, freeform text RP
[18:58] Cursa Charisma: But a demo is clearly necessary
[18:59] Baroun Tardis: so, after Joelle's .... maybe the first weekend in Novemner?
[18:59] Cursa Charisma: OK, how about having it be a different event - not a Sunday "talk", but a standalone demo?
[18:59] Baroun Tardis: could do
[18:59] Baroun Tardis: just have to arrange timing
[19:00] Cursa Charisma: OK
[19:00] Cursa Charisma: Let's work on timing and plan for around the start of the month
[19:00] Cursa Charisma: So we have next Sunday's talk set, and a demo of the HTCS on track
[19:01] Baroun Tardis: Maybe invite ya'll out to Weber to come do the Bread Quest
[19:01] Cursa Charisma nods
[19:01] Cursa Charisma: Remember also, Baroun, that you can rez things right here - there are spaces E and W of this platform where equal platforms can be laid down
[19:02] Baroun Tardis: coolness
[19:02] Cursa Charisma: There is also a ground-level open parcel next door with 10min autoreturn
[19:02] Cursa Charisma: Linden-owned
[19:02] Baroun Tardis: nice
[19:02] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[19:02] Baroun Tardis: yeah, we could make a little adventure with that
[19:02] Cursa Charisma: Cool
[19:03] Cursa Charisma: Just let me know anything you need
[19:07] Baroun Tardis: ok, I'll think it out. Maybe a scavanger hunt type thing
[19:08] Cursa Charisma: Good idea
[19:09] Baroun Tardis: Well, I need to run and go fix something
[19:09] Baroun Tardis: it's been a pleasure
[19:09] Baroun Tardis: See you all again next week
[19:09] Cursa Charisma: Thanks, Baroun
[19:10] Cursa Charisma: Looking forward to your demo
[19:10] Joelle Tardis gets off of Barouns Lap so he can move
[19:10] Baroun Tardis chuckles to Joelle
[19:10] Cursa Charisma: OK, bye, Lucien