Saturday, January 16, 2010

Nov.15, 2009 Topic "Roleplay in Second Life"

On November 15, 2009, an open discussion on topics related to role play in Second Life was held at the Role Play Nexus in Mul.

Attending were:
Allen Kerensky
Ariel Moonsoo
Baroun Tardis
Charon Mandelbrot
Cursa Charisma
Izzie Foxtrot
Joelle Tardis
Laria Lusch
Plissken Wirefly
Praskovya Zenovka
Samson Novi
Sentry Swashbuckler
Smilodon Carver
Taash Nightfire

A transcript of the discussion follows:
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: Yes, good afternoon, and welcome to the Role Play Nexus
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: Today, we will be having an open discussion on Role Play in Second Life
[16:06] Plissken Wirefly: ohhhhhh...
[16:06] Cursa Charisma: On behalf of the SL RPG Developers group and the Nexus, welcome
[16:07] Plissken Wirefly: is ther a problem?
[16:07] Plissken Wirefly: or is this a brainstorm?
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: No problem at all, be welcome and sit wherever you are comfortable
[16:07] Baroun Tardis: More Brainstorm/ideas/discussion
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: The Rule of the Nexus is: Have Fun When It's Fun
[16:07] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:07] Taash Nightfire: Just chatting. A salon sorta' thing, I think. I hope... ;-)
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: Yes, I have a few things to mention up front, after which it will be an open discussion
[16:07] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Smilodon
[16:08] Cursa Charisma: Great name
[16:08] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:08] Baroun Tardis: Smilodon?
[16:08] Baroun Tardis: EVERYBODY has a better name than I do!
[16:08] Smilodon Carver: What?
[16:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:08] Baroun Tardis laughs
[16:08] Smilodon Carver: Oh, sorry
[16:08] Cursa Charisma: Ah, but Baroun, yours *sounds* so cool when spoken aloud
[16:08] Smilodon Carver: I'll get a worse name, I swear.
[16:08] Smilodon Carver: Hi Plissken
[16:08] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: When you've rezzed in, Smilodon, please feel free to sit wherever you are comfortable
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: We have movie soundtracks on the music stream
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: And we recommend setting viewers to Midnight
[16:09] Smilodon Carver: Fascinating
[16:09] Cursa Charisma: But "whatever pushes your pixels"
[16:09] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:09] Taash Nightfire: Oh...yeah. Midnight's good. Nice lights.
[16:10] Cursa Charisma: For those of you who are new to the Nexus, it exists to exchange ideas, questions, info, advice, techniques, gripes, and stories about role playing in Second Life
[16:10] To Alt, or Not to Alt?: Smilodon Carver, should different RP characters be represented by different avatars?
[16:11] Cursa Charisma: On some of the standing stones around you, you can see posters for events we've had over the past few weeks
[16:11] Cursa Charisma: Touch any of them to receive a full transcript of the excellent talks and discussions
[16:11] Smilodon Carver: Fascinating
[16:11] Cursa Charisma: Today's discussion will also have a transcript made available for future reference, and for the benefit of those who cannot attend
[16:11] Smilodon Carver: I see a snapshot from Nippon.
[16:11] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[16:12] Cursa Charisma: We also solicit cool snapshots and notecards you think well exemplify role play in Second Life
[16:12] Smilodon Carver: Hmm, dunno
[16:12] Baroun Tardis chuckles, "I should send you my folder, Cursa..."
[16:12] Smilodon Carver: I like that Sid Meier quote.
[16:13] Cursa Charisma: Since we've had six talks and a wonderful demonstration so far, I thought it would be a good opportunity today, along with open discussion, to give some thought to what other sorts of events and activities we could hold that would be interesting and useful to folks
[16:13] Cursa Charisma bows formally
[16:13] Cursa Charisma bows in honor of the great Sid Meier
[16:13] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:13] Smilodon Carver: :)
[16:13] Cursa Charisma: So, without further ado, let's start discussing!
[16:14] Cursa Charisma: Oh, one last thing: my attire reflects the fact that I roll out of bed in the morning for these events, being at GMT+9
[16:14] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[16:14] Cursa Charisma shuts up and sits down
[16:14] Baroun Tardis: Well, future events - how about a series of field trips to different sims? I've heard of some neat places during the dicussions here, and it'd be fun to have a quiet tour
[16:15] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:15] Cursa Charisma: Excellent idea, Baroun
[16:15] Smilodon Carver: Cool
[16:15] Cursa Charisma: Perhaps we gather here, receive an introduction from a representative of the rp group, then go for a tour/demonstration and return here for discussion?
[16:15] Allen Kerensky: one way to find those -
[16:16] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Ariel
[16:16] Ariel Moonsoo: Greetings
[16:16] Baroun Tardis: That's what I'm thinking - a short briefing on "local customs and dress" ,and then a walk-around
[16:16] Smilodon Carver: That would be cool
[16:16] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:16] Smilodon Carver: Oh, I've heard about the geocaching.
[16:17] Baroun Tardis: Done Geocaching RL
[16:17] Baroun Tardis: but not SL....
[16:17] Ariel Moonsoo: Probably kinda like grid hunts.
[16:17] Cursa Charisma looks across the ring to the poster of himself and Yaku Singh engaged in old-school geocaching, hehe
[16:18] Smilodon Carver: Fascinating, Baroun
[16:18] Cursa Charisma: So, are we talking about geocaching as part of the rp field trip idea, or as a separate idea?
[16:19] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Samson
[16:19] Samson Novi: h'lo
[16:19] Cursa Charisma: Please don't knock down our standing stones
[16:19] Cursa Charisma winks
[16:19] Samson Novi blinks blurry rezzin eyes and holds breath
[16:19] Samson Novi: imscared to move
[16:19] Taash Nightfire: I'd think the trips as ways to A) critique the places we visit if the owner wants and B) get a feel for good places to take RP groups geocaching.'s possible I don't understand this group. =)
[16:19] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:20] Baroun Tardis: Separate thing - I think Allen was just saying that the Geocaching will take you places
[16:20] Allen Kerensky: i expect the geocaching site might be a palce to mine ideas of where to go
[16:20] Cursa Charisma: Oh, Taash, this isn't even really a group, just a place where interested folks can gather and talk and do stuff about RP
[16:20] Allen Kerensky: since those sim owners have already 'agreed' to self-guided tours of a sorts by placing the cache
[16:20] Cursa Charisma: I see, Allen
[16:20] Taash Nightfire nods. "Got it. Thanks"
[16:21] Cursa Charisma: So a more organized kind of event with several rp groups involved at once?
[16:21] Taash Nightfire: RP Expo.
[16:22] Baroun Tardis: Ok - gotcha Allen - but i was thinking it would be neat to have a rep of the sim tell us backstory, then take us places
[16:22] Cursa Charisma: Perhaps we can start with the simplest method, and work up to the more sophisticated one?
[16:23] Sentry Swashbuckler: Doesn't SL already do sci-fi and other expos already?
[16:23] Baroun Tardis: RL example-- when I was in college, our engineering class did a ftrip to the offices of the engineers who dsigned the "Shamu Encounter" as Sea World. Long talk on how things work, we got to look at blueprints, ask "Why?" and heard it from the folks that designed it... then we went to the park, and walked behind the scenes, saw for real how the blueprints turned out. I thought it would be neat to do the equivlant in SL
[16:23] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:24] Baroun Tardis: i thought it would be neat for , say , someone fromt he Egyptian RP to give a talk about how and why, then go see
[16:24] Cursa Charisma: Expos are cool, Sentry, and good ways to lure people to check out a role play group, but this is more what Baroun is talking about
[16:24] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:24] Sentry Swashbuckler nods
[16:24] Cursa Charisma: A guided tour for rp "veterans" rather than off the street noobs?
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Izzie!
[16:25] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:25] Izzie Foxtrot waves
[16:25] Smilodon Carver: Hello
[16:25] Baroun Tardis: Welcome
[16:25] Cursa Charisma is embarassed to see Izzie so fashionably attires as he sits in his pajamas
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: *attired
[16:26] Izzie Foxtrot: hello... sorry to TP right in the middle...
[16:26] Taash Nightfire: I suppose, and maybe this is just me, something for the off-the-street types seems like a good idea. Maybe not *this* idea.
[16:26] Ariel Moonsoo: About typical for this setting, dropping in in the middle
[16:26] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:26] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Taash, how to appeal to/inculcate/educate new people is a major topic
[16:27] Smilodon Carver: Yes yes
[16:27] Taash Nightfire nods.
[16:27] Allen Kerensky: kidnappings?
[16:27] Smilodon Carver: Uh...
[16:27] Allen Kerensky: just kidding
[16:27] Cursa Charisma laughs
[16:27] Ariel Moonsoo: Only at CARP areas.
[16:27] Baroun Tardis: Cult re-education techniques ?
[16:27] Taash Nightfire: Not the Ludwig Von!
[16:28] Allen Kerensky: well, we could say its a midnight madness thing and then it bait and switch to a RP exploration
[16:28] Ariel Moonsoo chuckles
[16:29] Smilodon Carver: Hehe
[16:29] Cursa Charisma: OK, so who would like to work on the field trip / guided tour idea? And the geocaching idea, or will we use the first one to develop a network first?
[16:29] Ariel Moonsoo: What about some sort of an RP grid hunt - go looking for 'stuff' at different RP sims, and you pick up the sorts of things you need to operate at the next sim in each stop?
[16:30] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:30] Allen Kerensky: the firefly folks are building a grid hunt for next month
[16:30] Allen Kerensky: might be a good start
[16:30] Ariel Moonsoo: Ideally you'd only need one or two combat huds for the whole adventure.
[16:30] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, Firefly is very "accessible" - most people already have costumes they can use
[16:30] Cursa Charisma: Or perhaps a single "OOC" titler that is acceptable to the target sims/parcels?
[16:30] Taash Nightfire notes that this is moving beyond "discussion". =P
[16:31] Ariel Moonsoo: I get easily distracted by mechanics.
[16:31] Cursa Charisma: Well, if the discussion yields that a given project is cool and fun, the folks who want to can get together and take it further
[16:31] Baroun Tardis: That'd be an interesting scavanger hunt, Ariel
[16:31] Cursa Charisma winks
[16:31] Taash Nightfire nods.
[16:32] Cursa Charisma: So perhaps Ariel, Allen, and Baroun want to get together on this one?
[16:32] Baroun Tardis nods, "Sure"
[16:32] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:32] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[16:32] Ariel Moonsoo: I think I'd be game. I'm not certain what time looks like, but...
[16:32] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:32] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Joelle
[16:32] Baroun Tardis: Tell me about it on time
[16:32] Baroun Tardis shudder
[16:33] Smilodon Carver: I actually know someone named Kasra.
[16:33] Joelle Tardis waves and goes and sits downs
[16:33] Baroun Tardis puts an arm around Jolle
[16:34] Joelle Tardis: ((SHH Its his RL Birthday so Spank him or what-ever is appropriate for your culture before he leaves))
[16:34] Cursa Charisma: ((Happy birthday, Baroun!))
[16:34] Taash Nightfire: Doh! I knew that! Happy Birthday, dude!
[16:34] Joelle Tardis smiles innocently at her hubby
[16:34] Baroun Tardis sighs
[16:34] Ariel Moonsoo chuckles
[16:34] Smilodon Carver spanks Baroun
[16:35] Cursa Charisma: OK, we've covered the "what can you do for the Nexus?" for the moment, so how about the "what can the Nexus do for you?" thing?
[16:35] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Laria!
[16:35] Smilodon Carver: I dunno
[16:35] Laria Lusch: smiles ty
[16:35] Baroun Tardis: I'm now even more old--- due a tragic Y2k Error, I was born in 67. I'm now One Thousand, Nine Hundred and Forty Three
[16:36] Taash Nightfire: Beats one thousand, nine hundred and forty-four, though. ;-)
[16:36] Cursa Charisma: Really? Perhaps you can tell me about that whole thing with Nerva
[16:36] Smilodon Carver: Poor guy
[16:36] Baroun Tardis: Well, I'd like to pass on to the group, since it's RP - I'm cranking "Scout Sundays" back up, with is Sci-Fi RP. Looking like around noonish SLT on Sunday. Open to anyone, and if you have a sim you wouldn't mind haveing some alien explorers land in and Survey, give me a yell
[16:37] Smilodon Carver: Fascinating
[16:37] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:37] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[16:37] Cursa Charisma: I have been to one of these Scout events, and it was a load of fun!
[16:37] Baroun Tardis grins, "We've had some good ones!"
[16:37] Allen Kerensky: and the Sierra roleplay ship for the Scouts has been partly overhauled already
[16:37] Baroun Tardis: Damn, that's putting it mildly....
[16:37] Allen Kerensky: so... Sierra II is underway
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Charon!
[16:38] Baroun Tardis: Allen's been like a dynamo on the overhaul
[16:38] Joelle Tardis: and the Sisterhood I Belive plans on Visiting Al Raqis quite often
[16:38] Charon Mandelbrot: hi, thanks
[16:38] Ariel Moonsoo: Where's the starting point?
[16:38] Samson Novi: cahron stop following me
[16:38] Baroun Tardis sighs, "Another person wit a cooler name than mine.... I'm having name inferiority complex.."
[16:38] Samson Novi: *charon
[16:38] Charon Mandelbrot: ohGod!
[16:38] Samson Novi giggles
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: Once you rez in , Charon, ferry your behind to wherever you'd like to sit
[16:38] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:38] Samson Novi: stalker
[16:39] Charon Mandelbrot: will do hopefully without stepping on anyone except Samson
[16:39] Samson Novi: ;)
[16:40] Cursa Charisma: Since a few people have come since we started, I'll remind everyone that the transcripts of past talks and discussions can be had by touching the posters around the ring here
[16:40] Cursa Charisma: So, what sorts of things can the Nexus do that would be interesting and useful to you and role players you know?
[16:41] Smilodon Carver: I don't really have any ideas.
[16:41] "Achieving Sustainability": Laria Lusch, here is a transcript of the talk
[16:41] Allen Kerensky: the tours is a good idea
[16:41] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:41] Baroun Tardis: The Geocache/Scavanger hunt sounds like fun
[16:41] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:41] Allen Kerensky: RP classes for fundamentals like talkers, titlers, and meters
[16:41] Cursa Charisma: Ah, tutorials
[16:41] Allen Kerensky: Building avatars
[16:42] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:42] Cursa Charisma: Very good
[16:42] Baroun Tardis: Tutorials...
[16:42] Allen Kerensky: for various types of RPs
[16:42] Map as TP hub: Laria Lusch, Flotsam Beach is a great example for RP places to learn from
[16:42] Cursa Charisma: I'm often surprised that people are afraid to work on their own avatars' shapes and so on
[16:42] Taash Nightfire: Intro/orientation to some of the non-mechanical, social aspects of RP might be nice, too.
[16:42] Allen Kerensky: developing freebie boxes for costumes and props?
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: Interesting, Taash. Do you have some particular points in mind?
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: (to Taash) the main purpose - moar RP!
[16:43] Taash Nightfire points at Allen. "What she said."
[16:43] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:43] Taash Nightfire: Character development, hooks, story arcs.
[16:43] Taash Nightfire: OOC vs. IC.
[16:43] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: developing character, being in the moment
[16:43] Taash Nightfire: Genres.
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[16:43] Joelle Tardis grins at them both happily
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: Cursa and I had some IM chat about that earlier
[16:43] Taash Nightfire nods.
[16:44] Cursa Charisma: Taash, would you like to give us a talk on that area?
[16:44] Allen Kerensky: actors say "Be Here Now" to remind themselves to be IN the scene, or in the moment
[16:44] Cursa Charisma: Yes, and to avoid what we call metagaming
[16:44] Allen Kerensky: or godmodding
[16:44] Cursa Charisma: Be where the *character* is
[16:44] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:44] Ariel Moonsoo: I've been mulling hosting a session about adapting avatars to RP settings and vice versa. Likely to include a lot of shapeshifting on my part.
[16:44] Taash Nightfire: Dunno'. Possibly. It's not clear that I'd be the best person to do it. ;-)
[16:44] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, Ariel
[16:44] Allen Kerensky: (to Ariel) awesome!
[16:44] Taash Nightfire loves to god-mod.
[16:45] Taash Nightfire: Nice, Ariel.
[16:45] Baroun Tardis: That would be cool Ariel
[16:45] Cursa Charisma: Taash, the purpose of a talk is to identify and clarify some of the issues, and then people can discuss them. A speaker doesn't have to be a paragon or expert, hehe
[16:45] Cursa Charisma winks
[16:45] Allen Kerensky: i'd like to see someone experience in SL RPs talk about "Joining an ongoing session"
[16:45] Baroun Tardis wonders what Godmodding is before Taash agrees with him about everything
[16:45] Ariel Moonsoo: Godmodding ~= powergaming.
[16:45] Allen Kerensky: walking into established settings with longterm players can be daunting
[16:46] Allen Kerensky: and I am never good at it
[16:46] Cursa Charisma: Godmodding, or god moding, is when people write actions that override the prerogatives of other players
[16:46] Joelle Tardis laughs at Baroun knowing full well that he knows and is being a brat
[16:46] Baroun Tardis: Like "before Taash agrees with him about everything" ?
[16:46] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[16:46] Baroun Tardis turns to Taash for the high-five... TEAM JOKE!
[16:47] Smilodon Carver: Uh...
[16:47] Allen Kerensky: (to Smilodon) i'm lost too, no worries
[16:47] Taash Nightfire: Godmodding, Baroun, is the sort of thing where you declare an outcome along with your attempt. Or at least, that's my understanding.
[16:47] Smilodon Carver: Hehe
[16:47] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:47] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[16:47] Baroun Tardis: I'd have to agree
[16:47] Allen Kerensky: "I shoot you ... and you fall down dead" is go modding
[16:47] Joelle Tardis is giggleing uncontrolably
[16:47] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:47] Taash Nightfire: ;gives Baroun the high five.
[16:47] Taash Nightfire: Yep.
[16:47] Smilodon Carver: Maybe, for those of us interested in historical RP, a discussion on finding resources for researching history.
[16:48] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, Smilodon
[16:48] Baroun Tardis: Oh, that would be great , Smilodon
[16:48] Cursa Charisma: So maybe a notecard giver placed here?
[16:48] Taash Nightfire: Neat idea, Smilodon.
[16:48] Allen Kerensky: (to Smilodon) "Creating Accurate Historical RP"
[16:48] Smilodon Carver: Maybe
[16:48] Baroun Tardis: A brief talk on good places to get information beyond "Google" would be good
[16:49] Smilodon Carver: It became quite a crucial issue for me when I went to a sim based on ancient Persia, and I seemed to be the only person there who knew jack squat about Persian history.
[16:49] Laria Lusch gave you Snapshot : Falcons Landing and RP Nexus, Mul (61, 219, 1002).
[16:49] Allen Kerensky: "beyond Google" *boggle*
[16:49] Cursa Charisma: Ah, yes
[16:49] Smilodon Carver: :)
[16:49] Cursa Charisma: "Authenticity" = Hollywood?
[16:49] Allen Kerensky: oh... you mean Wikipedia
[16:49] Smilodon Carver: Well, there is such a thing as a googleplex: A google of googles.
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: Wikipedia can be an excellent place to *start*
[16:50] Cursa Charisma winks
[16:50] Smilodon Carver: Yes
[16:50] Smilodon Carver: Good for some quick references
[16:50] Taash Nightfire: Hmmm...there's an RP topic in there somewhere: Dealing with Difference Expectations.
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: Yes, and usually to identify some of the main items/issues
[16:50] Allen Kerensky: wikipedia is "what the crowd knows about X"
[16:50] Taash Nightfire: *different
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Taash!
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: That is a major thing
[16:51] Allen Kerensky: Cursa started on that topic before
[16:51] Allen Kerensky: talking about "types" of RPers
[16:51] Baroun Tardis: but this is a "settings differences"
[16:51] Cursa Charisma: If you grab the transcript of the talk on "What is RP?", we opened that topic, but it needs more attention
[16:51] Taash Nightfire: Well...I was thinking more general, based on - *glances at Baroun* yeah, that.
[16:51] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:52] Baroun Tardis: I think that would Rock
[16:52] Taash Nightfire: If I can't play in the Persia sim unless I am, or am willing to become, a persian history buff...that maybe gets dicey somewhere.
[16:52] Smilodon Carver: I'm sorry
[16:52] Smilodon Carver: But I was talking more about the sim owner and the game masters.
[16:52] Taash Nightfire: No, no...not at all!
[16:52] Taash Nightfire: Just the thought that cross my mind. =)
[16:53] Taash Nightfire: *crossed
[16:53] Cursa Charisma: Well, organizing an rp group so that people can get into it easily, but also hardcare people can enjoy it, is a major strategic challenge
[16:53] Ariel Moonsoo: Well, the sim management could always provide a 101 type card for newcomers.
[16:53] Cursa Charisma: *hardcore
[16:53] Taash Nightfire nods and nods.
[16:53] Allen Kerensky: a good topic there too - organizing and structuring all the various info needed for a "setting" in a sim
[16:54] Allen Kerensky: newb info, up to "deep inner secrets of setting"
[16:54] Allen Kerensky: what has worked in other RP sims?
[16:54] Cursa Charisma: One thing is, it's the "Disney" version of Egypt or Arabian Nights or whatever that will first attract a lot of people. How to transition them from that to a more historical focus, if that's what the group is about?
[16:55] Allen Kerensky: lol about how Disney wrecks factuality
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: But gets people interested
[16:55] Taash Nightfire: And at what point, if any, does the setting deviate from history based on player activity?
[16:55] Smilodon Carver: Or the "bondage dungeon" version. *L*
[16:55] Allen Kerensky: how many pirates walked the plank before Disney?
[16:55] Cursa Charisma laughs
[16:55] Ariel Moonsoo chuckles at Smilodon
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: Good points
[16:56] Allen Kerensky: so..t he topic is "how to convert a new player with disney expectations into the setting specific hardcore RPer?"
[16:56] Smilodon Carver: I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore RPer.
[16:56] Cursa Charisma: Well, that is definitely one topic
[16:56] Allen Kerensky: in a historically accurate sim, if you are the only accurate one: that's hardcore
[16:56] Cursa Charisma: Let's define terms: in the context of SL, "no high heels" is hardcore
[16:56] Ariel Moonsoo chuckles
[16:56] Smilodon Carver: Huh?
[16:56] Allen Kerensky: or like the Dune sim I was in where I was one of the most "detail oriented" Dune setting people around
[16:57] Allen Kerensky: i built a Windtrap from the book - no one wanted it - they wanted the one I built that looked like one of the windtraps from the video games
[16:57] Allen Kerensky: which are still rezzed there to this day
[16:57] Baroun Tardis: "No high heels " (laughing)
[16:57] Smilodon Carver: Well, I had offered to give some classes on Persian history to anyone interested, but the sim got sold.
[16:57] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:58] Cursa Charisma: Yes, that's a separate topic: what sorts of settings can be sustainably supported in the SL environment?
[16:58] Taash Nightfire: Good point in there, Allen: Fictional settings have their historical canon as much as those based on RL.
[16:58] Smilodon Carver: Yeah
[16:59] Baroun Tardis: What's the one about "Who is more real, Sherlock Holmes or Oliver Cromwell?"
[16:59] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:59] Smilodon Carver: eh?
[16:59] Allen Kerensky: Sherlock Holmes - elementary.
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: Aah!
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: *shrieks*
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: That hurt
[17:00] Baroun Tardis whispers: Why?
[17:00] Allen Kerensky: what settings can SL support - furries, Gor, Firefly, Star Trek, Star Wars, and a handful of other
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: (it was a pun so bad that I might have made it)
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: Allen, instead of a list like that, perhaps we can identify what it is those have in common
[17:00] Praskovya Zenovka: i think a better question would be what settings SL cannot
[17:00] Ariel Moonsoo: Miedeval, tolkien/high fantasy.
[17:01] Allen Kerensky: vampires
[17:01] Cursa Charisma whispers: All but Gor in your list are widely known before people come into SL
[17:01] Allen Kerensky: forgot the vampires
[17:01] Smilodon Carver: I think SL can handle quite a bit.
[17:01] Smilodon Carver: Well, I hate to run off like this, but I need to get going.
[17:01] Joelle Tardis: If the Human mind can concive it, Sl Can probablly support it.
[17:01] Cursa Charisma: But Gor proves that something almost nobody has ever heard of can grab people's attention after entering SL
[17:01] Smilodon Carver: Have a good day, everybody.
[17:01] Allen Kerensky: define "handle" - everything is possible here - but - do you mean a sim that pays for itself?
[17:01] Allen Kerensky: or a group of size X that plays for more than Y time?
[17:01] Smilodon Carver: Yeah, paying for itself.
[17:02] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:02] Baroun Tardis: I'd like to coin the phrase "RLP" - Real Life Play - which is using SL to role-play a real life thing (such as US Gov't using SL for training events )
[17:02] Laria Lusch: you too Smilodon smiless
[17:02] Smilodon Carver: See you all later
[17:02] Cursa Charisma: Thanks for coming, Smilodon, hope to see you here again
[17:02] Laria Lusch: tc ~waves~
[17:02] Baroun Tardis: later
[17:03] Cursa Charisma: So we have several topics that are clearly of strong interest
[17:03] Allen Kerensky: so, Cursa, got some good ideas to swing at now?
[17:03] Allen Kerensky: Topic #1 - Moar RPs
[17:03] Cursa Charisma: Yes, so now we swing back to "what can you do for the Nexus?", hehe
[17:03] Allen Kerensky: Topic #2 - Bettar Playerz
[17:03] Allen Kerensky: Topic #3 - Sims making cash
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: lol at #3
[17:04] Taash Nightfire can feed the Nexus inspiration for future talks.
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: Thanks, Taash. Is there a topic you'd be interesting in introducing in a talk?
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: *interested
[17:04] Taash Nightfire: Not until I've got a better idea that I'm on the same page as the Nexus. =)
[17:04] Taash Nightfire is cagey.
[17:05] Taash Nightfire: Nothin' personal.
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Nexus has no page but what you can see and read
[17:05] Cursa Charisma winks
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Most of the speakers we've had so far didn't know each other before this
[17:05] Taash Nightfire: Then it shouldn't take long for me to have a better idea.
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Great!
[17:05] "OOC: Griefers": Allen Kerensky, here is a transcript of the talk
[17:06] Allen Kerensky: plus, the RP Nexus is about a lot of views - not pushing 1 specific view
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: Yes, about *exchanging* views so that people can take away whatever is interesting and useful to each
[17:08] Baroun Tardis: it's cross-polination
[17:08] Taash Nightfire: Very cool. I can certainly contribute to those discussions...or try to do so, anyhow.
[17:08] Cursa Charisma: Excellent!
[17:08] Allen Kerensky: so, pickt he topic you'd like most for others to know your passionate views on - then tell us
[17:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:08] Allen Kerensky: even if we don't agree, we do listen
[17:09] Allen Kerensky: and feed stuff back and forth
[17:09] Taash Nightfire: Hmmm...
[17:09] Baroun Tardis: If you're on a different page in a big way, there's still a good chance one paragraph in there is going to make someone say,"ya know, I never thought about that before...maybe I could adapt that to what I do...."
[17:10] Taash Nightfire: Well...if I were going to "give a talk" I'd probably conduct is more as a round-table than a lecture. So, I'm not sure passion or knowledge would come into play.
[17:10] Taash Nightfire: If anything, both might be a hindrance to being an effective moderator.
[17:10] Cursa Charisma: Yes, if you'd like to moderate a round-table, that would be great!
[17:11] Baroun Tardis: If someone has the kindness to step up to the plate, we should at least let them choose what's on it
[17:11] Unlikely Messenger accepted your inventory offer.
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: Absolutely
[17:11] Taash Nightfire: It's not first on my list of things to do. If it's necessary, I'd be happy to do so. But I'm content to show up and just, you know, chat about stuff.
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: "Do what's fun when it's fun"
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: That's fine, too
[17:11] Taash Nightfire: Dig it.
[17:12] Taash Nightfire grins.
[17:12] Baroun Tardis: I'm down with that
[17:12] Allen Kerensky: and a default topic is always "show off your favorite RP sim"
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: Yes, we haven't had a story night
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: "The coolest RP I was in lately"
[17:14] Allen Kerensky: the coolest RP I was in lately - teaching my 7 year old son to play Donkey Kong
[17:14] Allen Kerensky: I am RPing as "dad"
[17:14] Cursa Charisma: You portrayed the gorilla, yes
[17:14] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:14] Taash Nightfire: Heh. Ya' big ape!
[17:15] Allen Kerensky: childrens protective service says I can't throw barrels at the kids
[17:15] Ariel Moonsoo: Doh!
[17:15] Baroun Tardis: So no donkey kong?
[17:15] Cursa Charisma: So change from LARP to a dice ruleset
[17:15] Taash Nightfire: Pft. How are they ever going to learn how to duck and jump?
[17:16] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[17:16] Taash Nightfire: (Any interest in SL vs. dedicated MMO's?
[17:16] Allen Kerensky: D20nkey Kong?
[17:16] Joelle Tardis: hehe, remote controled cars and space ships are not considered child abuse
[17:16] Baroun Tardis laughs at Allen
[17:16] Allen Kerensky: SL vs MMO in what sense Taash
[17:16] Cursa Charisma: (Yes, Taash - want to do a round-table on that? Or a talk?)
[17:16] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[17:16] Joelle Tardis: they never figured out you don't let the kids play with them, you chase the kids with them
[17:16] Taash Nightfire: Just thinking ahead...what happens to all the Trek sims when STO comes out?
[17:17] Baroun Tardis: oooo
[17:17] Baroun Tardis: that's scary
[17:17] Allen Kerensky: probably not much really - since MMO means "spoon fed content" vs. "realizing my dream" which drove a lot of Star Trek RP to start in SL to start with
[17:17] Taash Nightfire: Maybe the reason the less active genres / settings get play here is *because* they're not able to support / inspire a more intensive MMO.
[17:17] Joelle Tardis: well SWG ran their Mature Community to Sl
[17:17] Joelle Tardis: Perhaps STO will also?
[17:17] Taash Nightfire nods. I agree, Allen...but I'm still curious to see what will happen.
[17:17] Cursa Charisma: Wow, sounds like a round-table already, hehe
[17:18] Taash Nightfire grins.
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: one talk I would like to see is "SL game design: learning from PC games"
[17:18] Baroun Tardis: I don't think there's anything you can have in an MMO that with adequate effort you _can not_ have in SL.... but the converse isn't true
[17:18] Cursa Charisma saves up his rant about the unwisdom of cranking out yet another MMO based on a film "franchise"
[17:19] Allen Kerensky: mostly because I have been trying to adapt concepts from TRON 2.0 to SL just to see what can be learned from that
[17:19] Taash Nightfire: So you think SL can do what a dedicated MMO does *as well* as a dedicated MMO does it?
[17:19] Taash Nightfire: *So = do
[17:19] Allen Kerensky: (to baroun) high frames per second
[17:19] Baroun Tardis: Heh
[17:19] Taash Nightfire: Meant that more questiony, less confrontationally.
[17:19] Allen Kerensky: hmmm
[17:20] Joelle Tardis: I think HTCS does it as well and often better already and its still in Beta testing
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: maybe that's the whole topic series: Adapting MMO to SL
[17:20] Joelle Tardis: and development
[17:20] Baroun Tardis: Yes, I think so, given adequate effort on the creator. HTCS isn't there - yet
[17:20] Baroun Tardis: but V3 should be
[17:20] Cursa Charisma: "MMO in SL?" as the title?
[17:20] Baroun Tardis shrugs, "Could be"
[17:20] Taash Nightfire: Do you think you can handle as many people as an MMO and still offer the advantages of "whatever I can dream" to your players...?
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: too bad there's not really an open-source MMO to draw from
[17:21] Cursa Charisma: I think the questions I still share with Taash would be about the SL grid structure rather than game design
[17:21] Baroun Tardis: As long as I don't get over about 7k or 8k people, I think the server will cope, Taash
[17:21] Allen Kerensky: (to Taash) not really - all 60K SL players don't congregate in one place - an MMO - all players are in one setting
[17:21] Baroun Tardis: More than that, and I'll get everyone to send me L$25 a month
[17:21] Cursa Charisma: lol
[17:21] Taash Nightfire: No, no. Not the techincal side. THe RP side.
[17:21] Taash Nightfire: Heh. Fair point, Baroun. =P
[17:21] Allen Kerensky: SL does not have one setting except maybe "tropical island beach"
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Well, the whole "when to go to a dedicated Opensim grid" question is another interesting one
[17:22] Baroun Tardis nods to Allen
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Don't forget "strip/dance club", Allen
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: "Gapingly vacant shopping mall"
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: i like opensim - just hate dealing with it on Fedora and Solaris
[17:22] Taash Nightfire: Also..."The Mall"
[17:22] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:22] Baroun Tardis: I'd lumped "Strip/Dance club" and "Prostitution" into RLP - "Real Life Play"
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Ah
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Interesting, Baroun
[17:23] Ariel Moonsoo: Well, I need to head out for food.
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: Later , Ariel
[17:23] Taash Nightfire: Virtual career training...? oO
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: yes
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: Dept Homeland Security and CDC and others have/had sims
[17:23] Cursa Charisma: OK, Ariel, is it alright for folks to contact you on that project?
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: and used SL for training and planning
[17:23] Baroun Tardis: and many "Private perversion purveyors" use SL as a business conduit
[17:23] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[17:23] Ariel Moonsoo: They can.
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: Thanks
[17:24] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: Bon appetit
[17:24] Taash Nightfire: Crud...that's what I'm doing wrong. I need to peddle smut. *sigh*
[17:24] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:24] Baroun Tardis laughs at Taash - "Sex sells"
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: If you want to make offline $, "services" is where it's at
[17:24] Taash Nightfire shudders.
[17:25] Baroun Tardis: no one ever went broke by using the 7 deadly sins as a business model
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: Except gluttony doesn't yet work in SL
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:25] Taash Nightfire: It would be as if they gave us flying cars, and we immediately ran out and built brothels and billboards at 250'.
[17:26] Cursa Charisma: Well, look at e-mail: 95%+ spam, but still wonderful and vital
[17:26] Baroun Tardis: Or set the flying cars up with autopilots so everyone can join the mile high club....
[17:26] Baroun Tardis: and the people selling those autopilots will make a mint
[17:26] Laria Lusch: i would have to agree with cursa ....i by no means go into the "sex" side of sl...but i have started to work as a greeter at a naturalist resort and i make the most money i have ever made in sl.
[17:27] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:27] Taash Nightfire: If man were meant to be naked, he would have been born that way!
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: And that's a naturalist resort that *doesn't* have sex balls behind the bushes
[17:27] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:27] Allen Kerensky: topic: Sex in RPs.
[17:27] Allen Kerensky: i.e. my sci-fi sim ALSO has an IC brothel
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Allen, that will bring people to the Nexus!
[17:27] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:28] Cursa Charisma: Which one is that, Allen?
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: there used to be a brothel in Splintered Rock
[17:28] Cursa Charisma: Ah
[17:28] Cursa Charisma: Before my time
[17:28] Baroun Tardis: and I never knew!
[17:28] Baroun Tardis: heh
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: before a "faction" of kid avatars decided to rent a place
[17:28] Joelle Tardis makes a note to build one in Weber
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: and I had to remind Vooper about how the ToS works
[17:28] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:29] Cursa Charisma: The whole "age verification" thing is a morass of misinformation and FUD, too
[17:29] Allen Kerensky: i should make my Zindra land into an RP brothel
[17:29] Allen Kerensky: supply payment info or register as Elvis - done
[17:29] Laria Lusch: lol
[17:29] Baroun Tardis looks at Joelle and raises an eyebrow
[17:29] Allen Kerensky: i think there is NOT enough Elvis in SL
[17:30] Cursa Charisma: And when someone decides to track IP on all the Elvises?
[17:30] Cursa Charisma: leaving aside ethical considerations
[17:30] Allen Kerensky: hasn't happened in 3 years
[17:30] Joelle Tardis starts looking for Blue Suede shoes and brillo cream....
[17:30] Allen Kerensky: ever since LL offered "age verification" - Elvis has been King
[17:30] Taash Nightfire: I'm not sure you can speak of Elivs without leaving behind ethical considerations.
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Hail unto the Eternal Living King
[17:31] Sentry Swashbuckler: Folks, I need to head to another session... looking forrward to seeing these topics take root.
[17:31] Allen Kerensky: followed a long way behind by Tupac who is also regiered here a lot of times
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Thanks, Sentry, peace
[17:31] Sentry Swashbuckler: Night all
[17:31] Baroun Tardis: Night
[17:31] Joelle Tardis: Good night
[17:31] Laria Lusch: nite sentry =)
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: I've been sent the Elvis info by e-mail (unsolicited). Don't have Tupac's yet
[17:32] Allen Kerensky: its on one of the big SL wiki sites
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: But I have no intention of participating in the idiotic "age verification" thing
[17:33] Cursa Charisma: It's like voting in a rigged election
[17:33] Cursa Charisma winks
[17:34] Baroun Tardis looks confused - aren't all elections rigged?
[17:34] Taash Nightfire: Hmmm...listening to this it seems like there are a few different areas of RP Development concern: Sim Owners, Equipment Builders/Scripters, and Group Leaders.
[17:34] Taash Nightfire: Plus Elvis.
[17:34] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Elvis
[17:34] Joelle Tardis: well at least in the US honey, not sure about everywhere else but suspect so...
[17:34] Baroun Tardis: Hail to the King, baby
[17:34] Allen Kerensky:
[17:35] Baroun Tardis looks to Joelle, and says, "We could vote on it to decide if the ones in other countries are rigged too.... "
[17:35] Taash Nightfire: And when the King Left the Building, He Left us behind to carry on His works.
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: Indeed
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: yes, OOC roles seem to matter a lot to "audience" here - sim owners, sim admins, players, RP developers (builders, etc)
[17:36] Taash Nightfire: Eh...think I'd call the last group "Mechanics" or some such. They're all developers. But yeah.
[17:36] Baroun Tardis: Not sure why, because we all RP....
[17:36] Taash Nightfire: Dude. Get out of my head.
[17:36] Allen Kerensky: Craft Services
[17:36] Joelle Tardis: Because with-out the OOC Roles there would be no IC ROles
[17:36] Cursa Charisma: Well, Baroun, some owners/managers RP little or not at all
[17:37] Allen Kerensky: backstage and actors
[17:37] Allen Kerensky: and some builders/scripters pine for the days they RPed
[17:37] Baroun Tardis: Hmmmm..... that's kinda sad.
[17:37] Taash Nightfire: And their goals for development might be a bit different.
[17:37] Cursa Charisma: Yes, in theory, people could just gather impromptu and rp, but in practice, fixed groups and locations are more attractive and sustainable
[17:38] Taash Nightfire: Am I right, Cursa, that you're an RP sim owner...?
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: Nope
[17:38] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:38] Taash Nightfire: Ah. Interesting.
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: I have seen quite a few up close, though
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: And I was involved in managing one for a while
[17:39] Joelle Tardis: Poor Cursa...
[17:39] Joelle Tardis grins
[17:39] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:39] Taash Nightfire: Gotcha'. So you've been immersed in that side of things, even if you're not one yourself.
[17:39] Cursa Charisma: Right
[17:40] Baroun Tardis: He's been around the block
[17:40] Taash Nightfire: I'm not sure if the differences mean anything...but I suspect they play a role in the direction of development folks favor.
[17:40] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:40] Taash Nightfire: So to speak.
[17:40] Allen Kerensky: this is why I tried to address my griefer talk to all those audiences - players, builders, admins
[17:40] Taash Nightfire nods.
[17:41] Cursa Charisma: Many people fail to realize the pressures that sim management entails, and how that skews managers' behavior and outlook
[17:41] Baroun Tardis: yeah
[17:41] Taash Nightfire: Well...I'd guess money is a big, skewy one.
[17:42] Taash Nightfire: And, probably, money = traffic, to some degree. Maybe?
[17:42] Allen Kerensky: and I think SL is bad for RP in some ways, compared to MMO, because of the "open" and "distracting" nature of SL - jump from setting to setting in a heartbeat
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: Good and bad, Allen
[17:42] Allen Kerensky: yeah money and traffic and the inevitable drama-only-you-can-deal-with
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: The freedom keeps things "honest"
[17:42] Allen Kerensky: it also means everyone in SL isn't hear for the same thing and that "expectations" have to be setup early
[17:43] Taash Nightfire nods at Allen. "Right...forgot about that one. Moderation."
[17:43] Allen Kerensky: welcome to THIS sim, this is what we DO and what we DONT do
[17:43] Allen Kerensky: and some sim owners shy away from the "... and if you don't like it, go play elsewhere"
[17:43] Taash Nightfire: Yeah. That's probably important for groupless sims as well. Like Baroun's scouts...?
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: everyone logs into WoW to ... play WoW
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: everyone logs into SL to ...
[17:44] Taash Nightfire: *simless groups, I meant.
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: which is why someone rented a landing pad in Al Raqis and setup a shanty town 40m tall on it
[17:44] Joelle Tardis: well some try hard to listen to all their players and work things out as fairly and on a whats best for the majority basis
[17:45] Allen Kerensky: (to Joelle) Kasra is clear - "We do Gor by the books, and the rest can find the door"
[17:45] Allen Kerensky: which is fine with me
[17:45] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:45] Allen Kerensky: people go to Kasra know what they are getting itno
[17:45] Taash Nightfire: And actually, even in MMOs (I've not played WoW, but I've played others) Factions tend to work the same way. "We're a PVP guild. If you don't like PvP, we're not for you."
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: the laws (expectations on behavior and setting) are spelled out at the door
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: yeah
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: I ran a BBS with multiplayer PvP games
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: that was a mess until I got the "rules" posted on the menu
[17:46] Joelle Tardis: Rules help
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: "This is PvP because that's how the game is designed - don't like it, write a better one"
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: "SysOps don't care, and don't get involved. Solve your problems in game."
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: "No refunds for whining"
[17:47] Joelle Tardis nods
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: believe it or not - that made my system the most popular one running the game
[17:47] Joelle Tardis nods
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: people made factions to keep powerful characters in check
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: and when they realized they could kill ME anytime I set foot out of the safe town, they did so with gusto - and we happy not to be banned for it
[17:48] Baroun Tardis: it's not just SL tho - it's any game. You can't play blackjack at the roulette table
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: yeah
[17:48] Joelle Tardis: No you have to have some Basic Rules in the Game
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: set your rules, communicate your expectations, and be consistent and fair with them
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: you will get the like-minded community
[17:49] Taash Nightfire: Or not and have learned a valuable lesson about popular culture.
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: and the rest can move on to the other 20,000 sims in SL
[17:49] Joelle Tardis nods
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: i guess in a sense it IS a form of elitism
[17:50] Allen Kerensky: dubbed "community"
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: I disagree
[17:50] Taash Nightfire: does this look different to a player who wants to develop the hobby without being committed to a single commercial venture...?
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: It's freedom
[17:50] Allen Kerensky: and the game is on!
[17:50] Taash Nightfire: Or does it at all? =)
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: not sure it is - just don't develop for the benefit of one sim or estate
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: Well, there are plenty of sandboxes and empty builds where rp can be done
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: Yes, I love HTCS for the broadly applicable potential it has
[17:51] Joelle Tardis: Many Players Travel from Sim to Sim, but most of them abey the rules of the one they are in at that moiment
[17:51] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: sort of like how HTCS has sci-fi bits, and modern bits, and fantasy bits, and isn't tied to a single sim at all
[17:52] Joelle Tardis: obey*
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: lol Cursa
[17:52] Baroun Tardis blushes
[17:52] Baroun Tardis: Dev team's worked hard on it
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: no website at all for sims to sign up on
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: players drive it
[17:52] Taash Nightfire: So, okay...sims need to have a firm definition of what is RP locally, but equipment needs to be somewhat broad in application, sounds like.
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: wear it - play somewhere - ask Baroun to fill in any missing pieces you need
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: local RP = sim-specific setting and "culture"
[17:53] Taash Nightfire nods.
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: developers looking for markets need to avoid sim-specific lockin
[17:53] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: sims need developers - and vice versa - but its a perilous relationship
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: very easy to get tarbabied into a single setting
[17:54] Taash Nightfire: Yes...hmmm. Maybe that's what I was thinking of when I mentioned the different goals. At least partly.
[17:54] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:54] Allen Kerensky: so, ultimately, developers need their own workshops for autonomy
[17:54] Allen Kerensky: build what you are going to build and picka nd choose from the requests
[17:54] Taash Nightfire: But they also need sim-owners to support their products.
[17:54] Baroun Tardis: oh - HTCS comment - if you're using it, PLEASE consider Factioning . Drop me an IM , talk to me about Faction,. Upcoming big push for things that involve that
[17:55] Cursa Charisma: OK
[17:55] Allen Kerensky: once you've built the product to YOUR vision, I agree - if sim owners are your market
[17:55] Taash Nightfire: Hmmm...maybe I'm bein' kooky, but if a sim says, "We use HUD-X. Wear it or don't play here." You're...kinda' needin' their support.
[17:56] Allen Kerensky: and listen to input and feedback - but don't let it drive you to a product you don't believe in
[17:56] Taash Nightfire: If that's the standard approach of RP sims, that is.
[17:56] Allen Kerensky: not sure I understand - do you mean make products that work with HUD x?
[17:56] Taash Nightfire: Not exactly. Let me see...what's another big combat HUD out there? DCS...?
[17:56] Joelle Tardis: Well Many do not insist you wear a meter, Just that if your going to engage in RP Combat you use "blank" Meter
[17:57] Taash Nightfire: Right, Joelle. That's what I mean.
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: If I may, one of the major strengths for me of HTCS has been how it also works with things that weren't made or scripted for it
[17:57] Allen Kerensky: one thing I've run into trying to develop a simple knife is - the developer is swamped by badly documented meter types
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: When I can go and get bit by a zombie somewhere
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: And it's a puncture in the arm, and I can treat it with the HTCS med kit
[17:57] Taash Nightfire: Well...I agree. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to snipe at HTCS. As long as my damage doesn't go down to -5000 again, I'm happy. =)
[17:57] Allen Kerensky: if I make a product it has to be compatible with 10+ badly written 'specifications' to really be "marketable"
[17:58] Taash Nightfire: I'm just using it as an example.
[17:58] Allen Kerensky: otherwise, you lockin to one group
[17:58] Baroun Tardis: There's two reasons for that - didn't want to force people to give up "favorite weapons" , and didnt' want a situation where it didn't react and thus broke RP
[17:58] Baroun Tardis nods to Taash
[17:58] Baroun Tardis: In agreement w/Taash - I have seen that "Use Meter X or leave" happen
[17:58] Baroun Tardis: and the sim in question - I ended up loving the sim as long as I didn't have my meter on
[17:58] Allen Kerensky: and that's the sim choosing what it works with for its setting and culture
[17:58] Baroun Tardis: when I put it on, I lagged to a fare-thee-well
[17:59] Joelle Tardis: one of the things I Love about HTCs is that it does not require Laggy Sim Servers and RP Item Servers to function
[17:59] Allen Kerensky: CoLA is CoLA
[17:59] Taash Nightfire: I'm just saying that...I think that Baroun's goals or ideas for what is "RP development" might be different from those of a sim owner.
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: I tend to choose characters that allow me to avoid combat gaming
[17:59] Cursa Charisma winks
[17:59] Allen Kerensky: (to Taash) you are right,a ctually
[17:59] Baroun Tardis: To a degree, yes
[17:59] Allen Kerensky: HTCS doesn't lockin players to a sim
[17:59] Allen Kerensky: unless a sim locks into HTCS
[17:59] Baroun Tardis: But that's not surprising, I got all happy when I saw Taash because that's one of the "usually right people"
[17:59] Allen Kerensky: because you have to build things around the meter
[18:00] Allen Kerensky: DCS and XRPS are the same, however
[18:00] Allen Kerensky: DCS monster prim nightmares, anyone?
[18:00] Taash Nightfire: Sure. As a sim owner, what happens if half the folks are using HTCS and half are using DCS?
[18:00] Allen Kerensky: in a sense - a meter IS a community
[18:00] Allen Kerensky: and to avoid the admin hassle - you have to pick one and run with it - locking in
[18:01] Baroun Tardis: it still works
[18:01] Baroun Tardis: because HTCS accepts DCS damage, most of it anyway
[18:01] Baroun Tardis laughs
[18:01] Allen Kerensky: I can name a specific example of not mandating a meter and endless fun that caused
[18:01] Joelle Tardis: well so far the ones useing DCS see all the cool things you can do with HTCs and start asking questions and then join the HTCS Community
[18:01] Baroun Tardis: works until melee combat breaks out
[18:01] Joelle Tardis laughs
[18:01] Taash Nightfire: Right. And so, Baroun is selling to Sim Owners somewhat. I think. Maybe.
[18:01] Taash Nightfire: Or, rather, an RP equipper is.
[18:01] Allen Kerensky: yeah
[18:01] Baroun Tardis: I'm selling to RPers. My only advantage to selling to sim owners is the only thing I charge L$ for is resources
[18:01] Allen Kerensky: I tried XRPS in SR because it "did more" for developers than DCS does
[18:02] Baroun Tardis: well , and armor /weapons, to a degree
[18:02] Allen Kerensky: developing anything remotely roleplay for DCS was a lost cause
[18:02] Allen Kerensky: the spice beer - major brain trauma
[18:02] Taash Nightfire: Yeah, but you're system has to be useable in the places where folks RP. And it's to the advantage of sim owners to pick one standard for their community.
[18:02] Baroun Tardis chuckles - "From drinking it? No, making it"
[18:03] Allen Kerensky: XRPS was, in some ways - much easier
[18:03] Baroun Tardis nods to Taash - "yeah. it's to their advantage to standardize"
[18:03] Allen Kerensky: a meter system has to do what the sim owner and developers need it to do to build the props and set pieces that support the RP
[18:03] Baroun Tardis: I can run the meter in any sim
[18:03] Baroun Tardis: being able to rez helps
[18:03] Taash Nightfire: So, really, their ideal would be a meter dedicated to their sim.
[18:03] Baroun Tardis: yes an dno
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: Ok, biggest RP on the block is Gor
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: blunt truth
[18:04] Taash Nightfire: I'll buy it.
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: And part of that is the interoperability
[18:04] Taash Nightfire: Across sims, you mean?
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: you put on Gor Meter, you can go to Lord knows how many sims
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: Interoperability is a magic word
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: We ran an event in Kasra - Archery contest, like in RobinHood
[18:04] Allen Kerensky: magic in the sense of "doesn't really exist"
[18:04] Baroun Tardis: had a dozensims represented
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: Routinely have RP with people from other sims showing up
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: Firefly - same same - you can go to multiple sims, and your RP still happens
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: your advantage there is that within the genre the meters work
[18:05] Allen Kerensky: back to "a meter is a form of community"
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: so your sim gets traffic from X other sims
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: "Hey, we can go raid _____ "
[18:05] Baroun Tardis: or "_____ has ___ we can trade for!"
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: Or whatever
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: Alliance of Sims
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: The issue you're seeing though
[18:06] Baroun Tardis nods to the letters over Cursa's head
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: Firefly meter
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: Gor Meter
[18:06] Baroun Tardis nods to Allen
[18:06] Baroun Tardis: Community Meter
[18:07] Allen Kerensky: User Created Combat Systems - you can never have enough Standards
[18:07] Baroun Tardis: Bingo
[18:07] Baroun Tardis: HTCS - What setting is that ? heh...... All of them....
[18:07] Baroun Tardis: Anyway
[18:07] Taash Nightfire nods.
[18:08] Allen Kerensky: and the crap with meters is all the 3rd party add ons are part of the "props" you can choose from - more developers are meter has, the more enticing the community
[18:08] Baroun Tardis: So the individual sims try to standardize to what the rest of their genre us
[18:08] Baroun Tardis: use
[18:08] Allen Kerensky: or are forced into it because they need traffic to pay bills
[18:08] Baroun Tardis nods to Allen - "Yeah, if you have only 3 weapons usable with your meter.... lame ensues
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: especially if you bill as a combat meter
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: *cough* CERIX *cough*
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: Well, this is related to the question of whether a given group is mostly about combat or mostly about rp otherwise defined
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: yeah
[18:10] Taash Nightfire nods.
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: Frankly, I find the builtin SL combat system pretty adequate - it's the injury system of HTCS that adds to rp value for me
[18:10] Allen Kerensky: Linden Combat?
[18:10] Allen Kerensky: seriously?
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: I'd like to be able to just make a prim club and have it work on people, hehe
[18:10] Taash Nightfire: Yup. Me too.
[18:11] Taash Nightfire: Or to have enough access to the mechanisms behind a system that there's not much more to it than that.
[18:11] Allen Kerensky: and so did the griefers and so came restrictions
[18:11] Baroun Tardis: that would be neat
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: Ranged combat is another matter, but for melee, the mouse control thing is so awful that I don't want to waste time with the stuff most meters concentrate on
[18:11] Allen Kerensky: heh Emerald is adding actual Joystick controls
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Good, but personally, I'm not here for the FPS
[18:12] Allen Kerensky: should be in 950 but I haven't figured out how to use it yet
[18:12] Allen Kerensky: joystick for vehicles
[18:12] Allen Kerensky: yum
[18:12] Allen Kerensky: and we're back to "define roleplay"
[18:13] Allen Kerensky: no solid "across the board" agreement on that other than "you play a role"
[18:13] Baroun Tardis: In my experience.... combat happens. People don't always agree, can't always talk things out
[18:13] Allen Kerensky: combat gunbunnies define it as ... storytellers/paras define it as...
[18:13] Taash Nightfire: And so sim owners need to define it locally...and equippers need to cover all the bases.
[18:13] Baroun Tardis: the "sharp point" of a meter is that moment when the fighting happens
[18:13] Baroun Tardis: because everything else can be handled in chat
[18:14] Allen Kerensky: so can fighting but its rare to get that level of agreement between strangers
[18:14] Baroun Tardis nods
[18:14] Allen Kerensky: i shot you ... no you didn't nyah!
[18:14] Baroun Tardis: or sometimes, even people who know each other
[18:14] Baroun Tardis chuckles
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: The spontaneity that metered mechanics provide can be great for rp
[18:14] Baroun Tardis: "GO AWAY!" lol
[18:14] Allen Kerensky: oh yeah ... no kidding
[18:14] Allen Kerensky: i guess I am a bad RPer - I didn't fall down
[18:15] Baroun Tardis laughs
[18:15] Taash Nightfire: Just RP *how* you didn't fall down. =P
[18:15] Allen Kerensky: I did - I got behind cover
[18:15] Baroun Tardis: I did, the first few times... "you have suffered a ..."
[18:15] Allen Kerensky: hmmm
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: (brb)
[18:15] Allen Kerensky: quite a variety of topics on the table
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: Meterless RP
[18:16] Baroun Tardis: It is an "open discussion"
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: i like the HTCS-style meter where the meter enables controls over in-world objects
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: like the orbital bomber hud where you can "make stuff happen"
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: in the 3D world
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: (back)
[18:17] Taash Nightfire: Sounds a bit like how MMO's seem to handle object interaction. If I understand 'em.
[18:17] Taash Nightfire: Which isn't to say it ain't cool. =)
[18:17] Allen Kerensky: depends on the HUD
[18:17] Cursa Charisma: Making objects interactive adds to the sense of immersion and efficacy
[18:17] Allen Kerensky: and yeah - MMOs do get some things right
[18:17] Baroun Tardis nods to Taash - yes, lots of the HTCS interaction is MMO-inspired, hence my assurtation that nothing in an MMO is impossibl in SL
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: What first "hooked" me on HTCS was its use of a traditional PNP RPG's structures
[18:18] Allen Kerensky: one thing that SL really lacks is good monsters to hack and slash
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Traveller
[18:18] Allen Kerensky: rather than players
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Good point, Allen
[18:18] Taash Nightfire: Yeah...I wouldn't got as far as to say "nothing". Maybe "nothing the individual user experiences". But that's me being me, you know? =)
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: One of the things I want to see more of is stuff built destructible
[18:18] Allen Kerensky: lol Cursa
[18:18] Taash Nightfire: Agreed, Allen.
[18:19] Allen Kerensky: I thought about that for the Al Raqis docking station
[18:19] Taash Nightfire: ANd Cursa.
[18:19] Praskovya Zenovka: i agree with you on that Allen, it does limit what one can do as far as fighting is concerned
[18:19] Allen Kerensky: to do the same damage system the Sierra has
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: SL already has materials for prims, right, and a damage system for avs. Why not a check box for "destructible" on any prim or object?
[18:19] Baroun Tardis: Cursa, I went with traditional PNP RP concepts because they _work_ - why mess around with reinventing the wheel?
[18:19] Allen Kerensky: but then I remmebered how often I have to disable the Sierra's damage system because some yokel plinks it for fun "just because they can" interrupting what I was doing
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: And yes, buildings and vehicles should be built with damage scripts like Baroun's
[18:20] Allen Kerensky: the only damage that works - respawn
[18:20] Taash Nightfire: Hmmm...has there been a "Developing your RP Meter" talk? Or is there one on the table?
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: Yes, what works, and works simply, smoothly, and intuitively, is the best standard
[18:20] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:20] Allen Kerensky: if you llDie at the end - game over
[18:20] Baroun Tardis: I did an "HTCS Demo" , I think that's the closest, Taash
[18:20] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:20] Taash Nightfire nods.
[18:20] Taash Nightfire: I see. Interesting.
[18:20] Cursa Charisma: Yes, we should invite other meter makers to give demos
[18:20] Allen Kerensky: and I could talk for days about developing RP meters generally
[18:21] Cursa Charisma: And the ones who say, "you need to run a server script on the parcel" will disqualify themselves
[18:21] Cursa Charisma: heheh
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: I was devleoping my own before throwing in with Baroun
[18:21] Baroun Tardis laughs at Cursa
[18:21] Taash Nightfire: I remember. The word 'warp' comes to mind, I remembering that correctly?
[18:21] Joelle Tardis: and now we have the best developer team in SL between those 2 great minds
[18:21] Baroun Tardis: Heh, Allen, big chunks of HTCS are your idea
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: and don't blame me for SRM combat - I didn't right the spec
[18:21] Cursa Charisma: Perhaps if we could get 2 or 3 meters demo-ed, then a talk on principles and issues, that would be great
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: no, my meter is called Myriad
[18:21] Taash Nightfire: Ah. Weird. Cool.
[18:22] Baroun Tardis laughs at Allen and SRM comment
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: and its never been seen outside of my screen
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: its mostly just a character sheet at this point
[18:22] Baroun Tardis: I'd like to talk to some other meter devs.... be interesting to hear the logic behind their decisions on some things
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: but, I started that because I was so fed up with DCS + SRC
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: SRM
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: and that's how most meters start - frustration
[18:23] Cursa Charisma: Just like the old PNP days
[18:23] Allen Kerensky: initially - frustration with Linden Combat
[18:23] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[18:23] Taash Nightfire: Yep. And I'll bet they'd dig hearing from you too, Baroun. ;-)
[18:23] Allen Kerensky: hey, everyone makes llSetDamage(100) and uses follower to autokill me, WHAT?
[18:23] Taash Nightfire: And...actually...two and a half hours is my limit. Thanks for the talk, Cursa! And nice seein' y'all again. ;-)
[18:24] Allen Kerensky: hmmm
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: Night, Taash!
[18:24] Allen Kerensky: that would be fun
[18:24] Baroun Tardis: good seeing you again
[18:24] Cursa Charisma: Maybe a devs' discussion could come up with some specific practical proposals for Linden to improve
[18:24] Cursa Charisma: OK, Taash, great meeting you
[18:24] Allen Kerensky: on my december vacation, I could do a "so you want your own meter" talk
[18:24] Taash Nightfire: Likewise. =)
[18:24] Baroun Tardis nodsto Cursa, but I don't know if they'd have much chance to do things.... LL is pretty busy, I think
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: Yes, I'm not in any way fantasizing that LL would listen or be able to do anything, hehe
[18:25] Allen Kerensky gave you Simple Combat Meter.
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: But the exercise could be useful
[18:25] Allen Kerensky: there you go - a combat meter
[18:25] Allen Kerensky: lol
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: Thanks
[18:25] Allen Kerensky: credits at the top
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: Will look when time permits
[18:26] Allen Kerensky: and it IS a starting place
[18:26] Allen Kerensky: just going through that would make a cool talk I think
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: Sure!
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: We can even put up the platform over there again and demo it
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: And yeah, I need to head out myself
[18:27] Allen Kerensky: not sure you can do a "scripting based" talk in 30 mins
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: Still in pajamas offline
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: Oh, a scripting demo and talk can be 2 hours, np
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: And of course, now and always, folks are welcome to stay and chat to their hearts' content
[18:28] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[18:28] Praskovya Zenovka: well i think imma head out, nice listening in
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Praskovya, thanks for coming, hope to see you again soon
(transcript ends)

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