Saturday, January 16, 2010

Dec.20, 2009 Topic "Community: flawed conduit for fulfillment"

On Sunday, December 20, 2009, Joan Vhargon gave a talk, followed by an open discussion, entitled, "Community: flawed conduit for fulfillment". Taking part were:

Cursa Charisma
DarkMajik Bauhaus
Ginger Madzuko
Izzie Foxtrot
Joan Vhargon
Joelle Tardis
johnthomas Jun
Keith Ringgold
Naisha Enyo
Pippa Dalglish
Thaiis Thei
tobalour Koba

(transcript begins)
Joan Vhargon: Shall we begin?
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Naisha
Cursa Charisma: And certainly
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, everyone, to the Role Play Nexus
Joan Vhargon: I would like to thank everyone for coming.
Cursa Charisma: On behalf of the SL RPG Developers group and the Cairnlow Falcons (who own this parcel), thank you for coming
Joan Vhargon: echo?
Cursa Charisma: Today, we have a talk by Joan Vhargon
Blue Myanamotu accepted your inventory offer.
Joan Vhargon: Thank you Cursa.
Cursa Charisma: She's itching to get started, so I will just mention that we will be keeping a transcript of the discussion, and it will be available here
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: I’m going to share with you some notes from psychologists on needs and some notes from sociologists on definitions and functions of communities.
Joan Vhargon: Through discussion, hopefully we will be able to draw a connection between the way people use association with a community as a way to fulfill basic needs.
Joan Vhargon: Once that is done we can then look at why people join virtual role play communities and be able to ask ourselves how well we are structuring our RP communities to meet those same basic needs.
Joan Vhargon: I hope everyne brought their sleeping bags.
Cursa Charisma grins
Reiko Soyinka grins
Cursa Charisma is a freak who is getting very excited
Joan Vhargon: Psychologist Abraham Maslow first introduced his concept of a hierarchy of needs in his 1943 paper "A Theory of Human Motivation"1
This hierarchy suggests that people are motivated to fulfill basic needs. Similar to instincts these needs play a major role in motivating behavior.
Joan Vhargon: There are five different levels in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs:
Joan Vhargon: The bottom of the pyramid are basic needs
Joan Vhargon: Physiological Needs

Joan Vhargon: These include the most basic needs that are vital to survival, such as the need for water, air, food and sleep.
All other needs become secondary until these physiological needs are met.
Joan Vhargon: Second
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Pippa, please find a seat once you've rezzed in
Joan Vhargon: well before second.
Pippa Dalglish: thankyou
Joan Vhargon: and welcome Pippa
Joan Vhargon: Lets think of some ways that we simulate those needs in SL and in our RP?
Joan Vhargon: Do we simulate the acquisition of this basic needs in our role play?
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: We all have beds that /some/ of us lie down on before logging out.
Joan Vhargon: I thought I was the only one who did that.
Reiko Soyinka grins
Izzie Foxtrot raises her hand..."me too"
Cursa Charisma: Some of us "exit holodeck" to a base location and then log
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: Plus I always have a bathroom in my "house" (yes I know that makes me strange)
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I always tend to head back to my packs den (lycan) before logging out.. unless I'm just completely wasted. And, as for food aquisition, that's a major part of rping as a lycan, since, in fact, we eat flesh... usually from someone whilst they squirm :>
Reiko Soyinka: In Al Raqis, water becomes something to kill for.
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: But basic needs don't play a large part of MOST RP.
Joan Vhargon: Yes?
Cursa Charisma: Because most rp is a form of entertainment fiction, like stage plays
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I really think it depends on the community.
Reiko Soyinka agrees with Cursa.
Cursa Charisma: And DarkMajik raises a good point
Cursa Charisma: The hunt and feeding is a major part of lycan rp
Joan Vhargon: Actually that is a good example that I had not thought of
Reiko Soyinka: So, depending on context, we may simulate the first level of needs.
Joan Vhargon: Exactly.
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: Second set.
Joan Vhargon: Security Needs
These include needs for safety and security. Security needs include a desire for employment, health, personal safety and shelter.
Reiko Soyinka: The only people I know who don't set up a house almost right away are teenaged boys.
Joan Vhargon: Do we simulate Security Needs?
Cursa Charisma: I will postpone my disagreement there to another time, Reiko
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: Yes we willget to your interest in teenage boys later
Cursa Charisma laughs
Reiko Soyinka: People /I/ know, Cursa.
Joan Vhargon: Again. Do we simulate Security Needs?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Secruity needs are probably the -most- simlulated, in my opinion. At least, in the RP sims I play in, there are multiple factions, and almost everyone joins one at some point or another. The reasons are obvious, comradare, protection, and people with simliar interests/goals (icly)
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: Well, there is that privacy thing that became part of the discussion last week.
Joan Vhargon: Some of those go to higher levels but yes
Cursa Charisma: We clearly need to distinguish between ic needs and ooc needs
Joan Vhargon: Privacy = security.
Cursa Charisma nods
Cursa Charisma: Very much so
Joan Vhargon: I would agree.
Joan Vhargon: Lets jump to social needs.
Joan Vhargon: Third.
Joan Vhargon: Social Needs
These include needs for belonging, love and affection. Relationships such as friendships, romance, families, companionship involvement in social, community or religious groups.
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: Ok, does talking tummies fit into this level?
Pippa Dalglish: laughs
Joan Vhargon: Now what maslow is saying is that the lower level needs must be satisfied beofre getting to higher order needs.
Izzie Foxtrot blurts out laughing
DarkMajik Bauhaus: >.> they fit nowhere. I dispise thoes.
Cursa Charisma grins
Reiko Soyinka cheers DarkMajik
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Keith
Joan Vhargon: Hi Keith.
Keith Ringgold: Hi... everyone
Joan Vhargon: So we have gone through three levels of needs. This level is wher most of traditional RP communities have focused. Yes?
Cursa Charisma: Please find a seat when you're rezzed in, Keith
Cursa Charisma: There will be a transcript, so you can catch what you've missed afterward
Joan Vhargon: Belonging = We ave factions
Joan Vhargon: romance = teenage boys
Cursa Charisma whispers: Them again?
Joan Vhargon: and so on.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Ah, romance. Both the pinnacle, and the downfall of most RP.
Cursa Charisma: Again, ic vs. ooc
Joan Vhargon: How so?
Joan Vhargon: Drama?
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka disagrees with Dark...
Joan Vhargon: Explain please.
Reiko Soyinka: The pinnacle of rp is to have a balance between that evil and the good that keeps everyone...
Reiko Soyinka: sitting on the edge of their chairs, hunched over their keyboards.
Reiko Soyinka: wondering when the next shoe is going to fall.
Joan Vhargon: Lets see if that fits with our last stage: Self-actualizing Needs
Cursa Charisma: Say it, say it!
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: But first we have Esteem Needs
Joan Vhargon: Esteem Needs
After the first three needs have been satisfied, esteem needs becomes increasingly important. These include the need for things that reflect on self-esteem, personal worth, social recognition and accomplishment.
Reiko Soyinka: and a light saber.
Cursa Charisma coughs
Cursa Charisma: Maslow here, not Freud
DarkMajik Bauhaus: xD
Joan Vhargon: Remeber that Maslow is saying is that the lower level needs must be satisfied beofre getting to higher order needs.
Reiko Soyinka: I think the Esteem needs tend to be paramount.
Reiko Soyinka: in games, ergo in roleplay.
Cursa Charisma: No, Reiko, Maslow says you'll happily abase yourself to stay alive
Joan Vhargon: We cant get here until we get the Social Needs, Security Needs and Physiological Needs satisfied
Joan Vhargon: Pretty much yes. he was a cynic and a dreamer.
Reiko Soyinka: Most dreamers are cynics out of self-defense.
Joan Vhargon: That last level is where a lot of Drama arises in RP.
Reiko Soyinka: /nod
Cursa Charisma nods to Reiko
Joan Vhargon: Can anyone think of any examples?
Reiko Soyinka: The spurned lover, the social climber,...
Cursa Charisma: My opinions about the roots of ooc drama are copiously on record here, so I'll shut up, hehe
Reiko Soyinka: the person who needs to be in control to feel secure.
Cursa Charisma nods
Pippa Dalglish: attention seeking
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Most OOC drama, IMO, spawns from the fact people forget this is a game. Which, of course, leads to the "mary sue" syndrom, where absoultely nothing bad can happen to said character.
Joan Vhargon: What I'm trying to do is ask us to look at out RP as a vehicle for meeting some of these needs.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: But, I come from a very, very, very DARK rp community. So, we perhaps deal with that moreso than some others.
Reiko Soyinka: note to self, "mary sue" syndrome.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: But the "mary sue" syndrome is everywhere.
Joan Vhargon: Lets do the last level then dive in.
Cursa Charisma: In structured games like MMOs, Joan, characters die in combat. In SL, nobody can die in combat if he decides not to
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: Exactly.
Joan Vhargon: Last level.
Joan Vhargon: Self-actualizing Needs
This is the highest level of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Self-actualizing people are self-aware, concerned with personal growth, less concerned with the opinions of others and interested fulfilling their potential.
Cursa Charisma: (In text-based SL RP, I mean, sorry)
Cursa Charisma nods
You decline Your Private Limo to Sinatra Falls - LIVE guest Entrance from A group member named Amaya Ametza.
Joan Vhargon: Raise your hand of you are Self-actualized.
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma: Aspiring
Reiko Soyinka: good word...I'm also aspiring.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I daresay that no one could raise thier hand.
Reiko Soyinka: that last level is the goal...
Cursa Charisma: Depends, DarkMajik - if we take self-actualized to refer to intent or motivation
Cursa Charisma: And Maslow's point is that we only get there by having all the lower ones taken care of
Cursa Charisma: Which isn't going to be 100% attainable at all time
Cursa Charisma: *times
Joan Vhargon: That's where I and others disagree. Most thinks that individuals are all of these at different times.
Cursa Charisma: Hm, that would depend greatly on the individuals and the times
Cursa Charisma grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Hrm.. interesting. I'd disagree, Ghandi, for example, had complete insceurity of body, he was fighting for his home, and yet, he was probably the most self-actualized person I can think of. But, I ramble.
Joan Vhargon: You can rise and fall depending on the life situation. Exactly Cursa.
Joan Vhargon: Ghandi was less concerned with the opinions of others and interested fulfilling his and his countries potential.
Joan Vhargon: That's why he wore a diaper.
Cursa Charisma: I think that Maslow's hierarchy is an excellent tool for looking at people in general - of course, it's not going to apply to all individuals in all cases
Reiko Soyinka: I think there is a point where...once that last level is can override all the other levels.
Joan Vhargon: No. its imperfect lik ethe title of this talk.
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma is big on the difference between a saw and a magic wand
Joan Vhargon: Lets get to community. Lets remember that a community is made up of individuals that are all looking to fulfill their personal needs.
Cursa Charisma nods
Cursa Charisma: And few of them are self-aware enough to pursue their needs rationally, cough, cough
Role-play Strengths: Keith Ringgold, role-play is recognized as a powerful learning tool
Joan Vhargon: None of this is rational when yoou really look at it. None of the levels can be selfishly explained.
Joan Vhargon: Buy community.
Joan Vhargon: but
Cursa Charisma: I strongly disagree, but that's another whole topic
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Joan Vhargon: Go ahead, Please. I qualified it with selfish but that probably wan't enough.
Cursa Charisma: No, no, I mean it that that would be a whole can of worms - please continue about community
Joan Vhargon: A community is a "sociological construct." It is a set of interactions that have meaning and expectations between its members. Not just action, but actions based on shared expectations, values, beliefs and meanings between individuals.
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: We have all been in strong and weak communities in Real Life and in Second life. Here are some indicators or strong and weak communities. Please feel free to site of examples of communities you have been in that have displayed these characteristics.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: Sense of Membership
Cursa Charisma: The two-minutes' vent?
Joan Vhargon: I'll give you three
Joan Vhargon: Strong Sense of Community: The active participants proudly display symbols of membership in the community
Reiko Soyinka: oh, bikers.
Joan Vhargon: Weak Sense of Community: The active participants do not view themselves as a community.
Keith Ringgold smirks
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: How do we see this Sense of membership manifested in our Role play communities?
Joan Vhargon: More than smirks and grins...
Reiko Soyinka: hehehe, Gor sillks.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Ugh.. however, true.
Joan Vhargon: Group tags
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Profile Picks, even moreso than group tags, since group tags get metagamed xD
Cursa Charisma: Are you talking about what people choose to display, or what they are expected/required to display?
Reiko Soyinka: how do you metagame a tag?
Joan Vhargon: Choose
Cursa Charisma: Group tags and setting-related clothing and so on are usually expected/required, aren't they?
Joan Vhargon: That indicates level of commitment
Cursa Charisma: Unless you mean what people display *outside* the rp community
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Not where I play, Cursa.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Group tags are more like, flair, than uniforms.
Joan Vhargon: Possibly. Whe someone is invested and proud they show it. that invites others into the community.
Cursa Charisma likes the sound of DarkMajik's group
DarkMajik Bauhaus: You've probably heard of it. I'm not gonna name drop tho.
Cursa Charisma: Please do
Cursa Charisma: Positive things about specific groups are welcome
Cursa Charisma: I very much enjoyed my rp visit to Keith's Nar Shaddaa yesterday, for example
Cursa Charisma grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Well, I roleplay in the City Of Lost Angels chain, where I also GM/RP coordinate, and Database GM. Its the sim/chain of sims that founded the CCS rp/combat system.
Cursa Charisma nods
Cody Winterwolf accepted your inventory offer.
Cursa Charisma: Thanks, DarkMajik. It is indeed a well-known and well-regarded group
Joan Vhargon: Yes it is.
Joan Vhargon: Ok. Mutual importance
Joan Vhargon: Mutual importance
Strong Sense of Community: The active participants recognize, cherish, and support the contributions of each other.
Joan Vhargon: I love the cherish part.
Joan Vhargon: Weak Sense of Community: Participants are active only because one or a few powerful persons are involved.
Joan Vhargon: How do we see Mutual importance characteristics manifested in our Role play communities?
Reiko Soyinka: Hmmm, what was the name of that guy where all the people drank kool aid?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: If people feel thier RP is unimportant, they tend to leave the community alltogether.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Jim Jones, Reiko.
Joan Vhargon: And how does this feed into our levels of Psycho needs
Reiko Soyinka: Bingo, DarkMajik!
Joan Vhargon: Exactly DarkMajik
Joan Vhargon: How do we show people they are important?
Cursa Charisma: In many ways, some honest, others not
DarkMajik Bauhaus: We respond.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I cannot stand to see a new person, in any community, trying thier damndest to become involved, only to be ignored for the "power players."
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Its one of my, if not my, biggest pet peeve.
Cursa Charisma: The honest ways are to respond positively to choices we see as good ones
Cursa Charisma: Agreed, DarkMajik!
Joan Vhargon: Other ways. This is one of the important ones.
Joan Vhargon: Successful communities create a culture that responds to an individual, both new and experienced.
Reiko Soyinka: That is the hard part.
Joan Vhargon: What other cultures do we need to create to be successful. Mutual importance feeds into our security, social, and esteem needs.
Cursa Charisma: Again, desirable choices need to be rewarded with positive responses
DarkMajik Bauhaus: It is hard. Espeically if someone interrupts an on-going RP, trying to insert themself. We have to learn to be accomidating. I tend to think of RP as a novel, where each person has control over one character, and if a new character shows up, well, that's just the way the author wanted it, so to speak.
Joan Vhargon: Very good. Anyone else?
Joan Vhargon: Ok
Joan Vhargon: Shared world views
Joan Vhargon: Strong Sense of Community: The active participants hold common beliefs and promote shared values important to them.
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: Weak Sense of Community: The active participants hold fundamentally different beliefs and values and cannot reconcile their differences.
Joan Vhargon: How does this translate to what we are doing here?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Are you talking IC, or OOC, here, Joan, that's pretty important.
Reiko Soyinka: IC'ly, there are the themes of each sim.
Joan Vhargon: common interest in a story is one way personal politics is another
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Shared views, IC, dont make for very interesting RP, most times.. but we all need to have the same goal in mind, OOC, being the betterment of the RP enviroment for all.
Joan Vhargon: that is IC and OOC.
Frog Hoppers and Satins Friends Group Notice: Erin68 Frog today live at 5:30pm
Erin68 Frog today joins her r/l friend Ichie Kamachi for a 30 min guest appearance that you wont want to miss! It's Christmas on the beach with friends!
TIME 5:30pm – 6:00pm
Dress casual/beach wear
Joan Vhargon: But people hold a shared interest in the meta story of the Role play yes?
You decline 'Aqua City Docks, Tiatopia Island (221, 167, 23)' ( ) from Frog Hoppers and Satins Friends Group Notice.
Cursa Charisma nods
Cursa Charisma: Usually
Keith Ringgold: I would think that OOCly we would have to be of like mind (ie rules) before we can go out on stage and preform ICLy
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Bingo, Keith.
Cursa Charisma: Agreed
Joan Vhargon: Its a double edged sword. We share some views but are opposed in others.
Cursa Charisma: Yes, the challenge is in finding the right level and number of rules to set as ground rules
DarkMajik Bauhaus: That's something we struggle with daily, Cursa.
Joan Vhargon: Next one is relatively simple.
Reiko Soyinka: core opposed to operating rules.
Cursa Charisma: Yes, Reiko
Keith Ringgold: Generally speaking.. .I am looking for maturity and fun on my sim... but I have to lay down specific rules to get that across properly
Joan Vhargon: Before we leave this level we should all remember that this is a great tool. This is why people are here in these RP communities. To share a world view.
Cursa Charisma: Interesting
Joan Vhargon: To share an interest in living/playing out a story
Joan Vhargon: we may not be using this tool enough to solve other problems
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma is big on the right tool for the right job
Joan Vhargon: Are we ready for the next one?
DarkMajik Bauhaus subscribes to the larger hammer theory.
Keith Ringgold listens
Joan Vhargon: Bonding/networking
Joan Vhargon: Strong Sense of Community: The active participants enjoy one another and look forward to time spent together.
Weak Sense of Community: The active participants have no affinity for each other, and relationships are formal or superficial.
Joan Vhargon: Do we need to discuss this one?
Reiko Soyinka grins
Cursa Charisma: Poisoned Sense of Community: The active participants have come to feel that dealing with one another is an annoyance and a chore
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Exactly, Cursa.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: That's acutally why I am here.
Joan Vhargon: My question is always....
Joan Vhargon: Why do they stay?
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: LA's been having a rough time... I figured, a bit of re-education may not hurt.
Cursa Charisma: Getting fresh perspectives is always good
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Joan: To your question.
Joan Vhargon: Why do they stay? My answer is they are still meeting some need by staying. We just have to figure out which one and remind them of that.
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Joan
Cursa Charisma: *Joelle
Cursa Charisma: Sorry
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Why does the battered wife stay with the husband? Why do people stay within a government that represses them..
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Its multi-fold, fear of change has alot to do with it.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: the whole concept of "It could always be worse."
Joan Vhargon: Those are also excellent questions that send a chill down my spine.
Joan Vhargon: I think they dwell and retreat with what little is working.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Grasp at the few straws that remain, and hang on for all theyv'e got.
Joan Vhargon: I need a drink now.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: Any more on this?
Cursa Charisma: I think what we're seeing is that social and community experiences juggle the hierarchy
Reiko Soyinka: still thinking it over...
Cursa Charisma: And that can be positive or negative
Cursa Charisma: People will kill and die for social groups
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Rather feverantly, Cursa.
Joan Vhargon: Yes and others flutter from one to another.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus chuckles..
Joan Vhargon: Are we ready for Mutual responsibility for the community?
Cursa Charisma: Sure
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Look at this, a notice I just recived from the RP Coord groups.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Reminder...
Monday, 21 Dec 2009 01:24:24 GMT

I'd like to remind everyone here that emotional, heated arguements solve nothing and are counter productive to what we're trying to do here. We realize that sometimes this can't be helped which is why at the first sign of rising emotions a third party needs to be brought into the discussion to mediate things. This can be any GM both are comfortable with, if no senior staff are online.

This isn't a recommendation, this is the way things are now. Petty bickering and sniping at eachother, is a no!
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Therein lies the problem. People invest so much time into things, they become very.. defensive of said things, and in an RP community, one has to be careful with that line.
Cursa Charisma: Hm, and unilateral diktats are productive?
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Cursa Charisma: wb, Joelle
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Well, the problem is. The staff was fighting amongst itself
DarkMajik Bauhaus: to the point, where it was reflecting on the players, as well
Cursa Charisma: Sadly all too familiar
Joelle Tardis: thanks
Reiko Soyinka: Visions eventually diverge.
Cursa Charisma: Or divergent visions that were papered over become clear
Reiko Soyinka: that, also.
Joan Vhargon: yup
DarkMajik Bauhaus: A bit of both, I'd suspect.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: And! Need pocky, brb!
Cursa Charisma: Pocky, lol
Joan Vhargon: OK, mutual responsibility for the community
Joan Vhargon: Strong Sense of Community: The survival and health of the community is a primary concern of all its active participants.
Weak Sense of Community: One or only a few persons struggle to keep the group together.
Joan Vhargon: I personally have never seen the latter.....
Cursa Charisma: Really, Joan?
Joan Vhargon: (sarcasm)
Joan Vhargon: That's mostly what I see.
Cursa Charisma grins
Reiko Soyinka: ditto.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: three people bailing, while everyone else drills holes
Joan Vhargon: We'll masy not mostly but waay too much.
Reiko Soyinka: lol, Dark.
Joan Vhargon: So we can define the drilling activity as a poor sense of communty.
Cursa Charisma: A weak sense of responsibility for the community
DarkMajik Bauhaus: or none whatsoever.
Cursa Charisma: Right
Lucien Velinov accepted your inventory offer.
Joan Vhargon: I can see you saying that to one of your players..."It seems you have a weak sense of responsibility for the community. Lets talk about that while I drain you of all your blood."
Thaiis Thei accepted your inventory offer.
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Keith Ringgold: ;holds back a loud laugh
Reiko Soyinka: Um, she's a lycan.
Reiko Soyinka: not a vampire, Jim.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joelle Tardis: ohh but that has been so tempting
Joan Vhargon: I know but it was funny to say/write.
Reiko Soyinka: (are these lycans like the ones from underworld?)
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Simliar.
Cursa Charisma: Very hairy at certain times
Cursa Charisma grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: ALot of people play "Human with a tail" if you get my meaning.. but there's a strong sence of pack as well. For example, Dark calls her packmates "Brother wolf" and "sister wolf"
DarkMajik Bauhaus: even the non lycan
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: any suggestions on HOW to build a stronger sense of community?
Joan Vhargon: To sum up.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: Everyone os in SL to fulfill a need. Even griefers are attempting to fill a need in their activites. Or else why do they do what they do? Do we spend as much time and effort seeing that there are avenues for people to meet these needs in our role play communities. What type of culture are we creating that will help fulfill these needs?
Joan Vhargon: Reiko your answer is...
Cursa Charisma applauds
Cursa Charisma: Excellent, Joan
Joan Vhargon: Pay attention to why people are here.
Cursa Charisma nods
Joan Vhargon: What are they looking for?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: 'Empathy'
Cursa Charisma whispers: And do they know what they are looking for themselves?
Joelle Tardis: /applause
Joan Vhargon: Some are looking for what we can't give them.
Keith Ringgold: Recognition...
Joan Vhargon: Many dont know themselves but we can guess by their behavior what they are looking for.
Joan Vhargon: Recognition is a big one
Cursa Charisma: One problem though, Joan, is people who appear to have one set of needs and motivations, and may believe it, but turn out to be after something else
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Indeed, Cursa.
Joan Vhargon: Exactly. they don't know what they want. they just WANT.
Joan Vhargon: Or their needs have changed. then maybe its time for them to move on.
Keith Ringgold: I think some want to be a part OF something.. others want to a part FROM.. and that changes with thier perspective of where they think they are in the scheme of things
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Here's an interesting question for you, how many of you, through RP in SL, have formed long lasting, and meaningful OOC friendships? For example, I met my boyfriend via SL roleplay.
Cursa Charisma: Well, I have met some people via SL RP who are now professional colleagues as well as serious offline friends
Cursa Charisma: Oops, I mean off-grid
Cursa Charisma: Not offline
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: No not offline but definatley on-line.
Joan Vhargon: Not off grid.
Cursa Charisma: Is everybody standing up as an indication we should wrap up, or are we continuing for a while longer?
Reiko Soyinka: I agree with Joan...
Joan Vhargon: which part. All of it :-)
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I stood up due to synchronisity with my avatar.. she needed to stretch her legs xD
Keith Ringgold: I am standing to better look around... =)
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Thaiis
Thaiis Thei: Greetings all
Cursa Charisma: Thaiis, we'll have a transcript ready soon
Joan Vhargon: My final thought.
Joan Vhargon: If we watch behavior and try to figure out what need they are trying to fulfill, insted of just reacting to it, we may not bang our heads against the wall so much. We are not all psychologists. But if we stop to ask where behavior comes from instead of just focusing on the behavior we find our RP a little more interesting.
Cursa Charisma: I hope not!
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Cursa Charisma: Bravo, Joan!!!
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I think, for me, the best way to foster a long lived and successful RP community, is to remember, regardless of factional alliances, race roleplayd, or type of character. We're all human behind the keyboard, (I think o.o), and that we need to take into consideration that none of us (except myself of course) are perfect.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Also, OOC IM's go a loooong way to fostering better RP.
Cursa Charisma: Agreed, DarkMagik
Joan Vhargon: Yes DarkMajik, agreed
Reiko Soyinka: Only if you can stay on topic.
Joan Vhargon: We had a topic?
Cursa Charisma: Something about definitions of lycans
Joan Vhargon: Definitions are inconvient. That woud have ruined my blood quip.
Cursa Charisma grins
Joan Vhargon: inconvenient.
Joan Vhargon: That's all I have. Any other thoughts?
Cursa Charisma: DarkMagik, were you thinking specifically of quick IMs to say, "Hey, I want to do X, is it cool with you?"
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Exactly, Cursa.. or "Okay, you've defeated me CCS wise, what's your goal for the RP after?"
Cursa Charisma: Excellent
Thaiis Thei: World domination! BWAHAHAHAhahahahahaha! (Thunder)
Thaiis Thei coughs politely...
Thaiis Thei: sorry
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Or, even, if you notice a drastic change in the way someone is rping..
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: a quick, "Hey, you feeling okay today?"
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I've got no issues with talking about OOC issues with people, I Know sometimes thats a stigma.. I just dont have that gene xD
Cursa Charisma: Well, it's a matter of going as far with OOC as both parties are comfortable with
Cursa Charisma: These people who want to tell me in the first IM I've ever had with them all about their terrible offline health and family woes...
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Absolutely, some people prefer to stay IC, even in IM's, and that's fine.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Cursa: Sometimes, thoes people need you to talk the most?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Why else would they be telling you.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: They just want someone, anyone
Reiko Soyinka: Because they tell EVERYone.
Cursa Charisma: Some people have Munchausen by Internet
DarkMajik Bauhaus: to say, "Yanno, its gonna be okay. *Hugs*"
Cursa Charisma: And in practice, I'm a very soft touch
Reiko Soyinka: and then they play "yes, but..."
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Eh, I tend not to care, let them Munchausen all they want. I'll give them the sympathy they're looking for, its obviously they need it for some reason, even if not the reason they're telling me.
Cursa Charisma: Yeah, that ends up being my practice
Joan Vhargon: FOFL I want permission to use "Munchausen by Internet"
Cursa Charisma: Just saying it's an imposition that not everyone should have to put up with
Cursa Charisma: It's on Wikipedia
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Oh, totally.
Cursa Charisma: An established term
Keith Ringgold: I can understand a quick pulse check IMs.. but if a player is not in the right frame of mind to be RPing... I think that is thier personal responsibility to say.. Hey... I need to back out of this for now.
Cursa Charisma: Like the argument ad Hitlerum
Cursa Charisma: hehe
DarkMajik Bauhaus: haha, Cursa.
Cursa Charisma grins
Thaiis Thei: of course it is there responsibility
Thaiis Thei: we aren't our brother's keepers
DarkMajik Bauhaus: "The duration of an internet based arugment is exponeitally proporitonate of the likelyhood of one or more parties being compared to Hitler"
Cursa Charisma nods
Cursa Charisma: Did we want to get back to "Mary Sue", btw?
Reiko Soyinka grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Do you know the defintion of a 'mary sue?"
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: I had never heard the term before.
Reiko Soyinka: but the context was explicit.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Reiko: A mary sue is a type of character, well, a type of player
Thaiis Thei: really?
Thaiis Thei: wot kind
DarkMajik Bauhaus: who plays a character that absolutely no bad, except by thier own doing (usually only to better themsevles in the end) can come to
DarkMajik Bauhaus: They may have RP'ed flaws (Blind, for example)
Cursa Charisma whispers: Not to be confused with a "Mae West", which is an emergency flotation device
DarkMajik Bauhaus: but yet, they have none of the ill-effects of said flaw.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: "Oh, I'm blind, but I can Echo locate!" *squeeks*
Reiko Soyinka: LOL
Cursa Charisma grins
Joelle Tardis grin
Joan Vhargon: Ok. I have seen that. LOL
Reiko Soyinka: That sounded like a real live example.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Its something, that many people do without even realizing it. Hell, I'm guilty at times.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: But its something you should definatly try to avoid.
Cursa Charisma: It's an important term to have available to point out problems with, hehe
Cursa Charisma: In meter-based combats, you get people "near death". Then without a break, they're rping as if their characters are in full health
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Cursa: Yes, I hate that.. lol.
Cursa Charisma: In an RP group I'm in now, Cursa pulls bullets out of some of the same people again and again
Reiko Soyinka: Yep...that happens constantly, in all the community based games.
Cursa Charisma: It gets tired
Cursa Charisma: So now I just don't go when called
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma: But happily rp with those same chars in contexts I do enjoy
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Then again, you also get the "Pulls a duck feather out of her pocket, puts a crystal on your forhead, and your brain tumor vanishes!" healers, too
Reiko Soyinka: They need attention.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: which I dont like, either.
Cursa Charisma: LOL, that's setting dependent
DarkMajik Bauhaus: No, its not :/ I play in a post apocalyptic RP sim, and still get people that heal like that xD
Cursa Charisma: I could *almost* enjoy rping once in a while in a newage crystal and feather thing
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Cursa Charisma: "Let me align your aura with this vortex"
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I saw someone trying to heal a cyborg with magic the other day.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: :S
Cursa Charisma laughs
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I was like.. "I think a welder will work better."
Cursa Charisma: rofl
Thaiis Thei: and welding if fun
Thaiis Thei: is
DarkMajik Bauhaus: along a simliar vein.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: RP limit lits.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: lists*
DarkMajik Bauhaus: make me sad.
Cursa Charisma: Yes
DarkMajik Bauhaus: "No shaving, no capture over 5 minutes, no nudity, no dancing, no sex, no torture, no humiliation"
Cursa Charisma: The custom you brought up before, IMing to check, is the better way
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Oh, okay, so I defeat you, and I can uh.. walk away?
Cursa Charisma: I only have OOC limits, not IC ones, hehe
Reiko Soyinka: I have limits...and I make sure I don't get into situations where those limits will be violated.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I have no real limits. I wont do anything with children, but they're not allowed to be involved in combat or sexual situations in our sims anyhow.
Joelle Tardis searches thru her bags and pouches seeing if she has a crystal that perhaps she can veiw Cursa thru naked as if nothing else it sounds like some fine temporary entertaining
Cursa Charisma: A Reaver got to take a nice big bite out of Cursa yesterday, because the people who should have been keeping them off the wounded man failed to do so
DarkMajik Bauhaus: hee, yesterday
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I insulted the head vampire .. I think I said, "She's seen more helmets than hitler"
Cursa Charisma: Viewing Cursa naked requires no crystals, just a request or a bit of patience
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma laughs
DarkMajik Bauhaus: and had a very angry vampire beat me up, and carve, "I insulted the marquise and all I got was this carved into my chest" carved into my chest :/
Cursa Charisma: LOL
Cursa Charisma: Nice
DarkMajik Bauhaus: the sad part was, I was supposed to defeat her, and mess up her face for an Rp she wanted to do.. but that's not how it worked out.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: lol
Cursa Charisma: Yes, room for spontaneity is crucial
DarkMajik Bauhaus: well, we could have RPed the combat to ensure a victory for me.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: But we both felt like button mashing for awhile xD
Cursa Charisma: But it was more fun to do Y instead of X
Cursa Charisma grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Metered combat is such a double eged sword, though
Cursa Charisma: So to speak
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I prefer to RP combat with people vastly lower level than I
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Its no fun to cast radshot 7 on a lvl 10, and watch them drop in 30 seconds.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I'd mucccch rather RP the combat, and perhaps even Lose.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I like defeat RP, it gives me chances to evolve my characer in ways normally not avaliable
Cursa Charisma: My character does not use weapons
Cursa Charisma: But is usually metered
Cursa Charisma: Good rp grows from it
Cursa Charisma: He got shot by a griefer once, but it became a legendary terrorist attack
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I keep my meter on for GM calls, I rarely engauge in metered combat.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I've seen more OOC drama from the meter, than I ever have from RP
Cursa Charisma: And as I say, the Reaver attack became interesting because Cursa took an arrow and then got bit
Thaiis Thei: oh no!
Cursa Charisma: Yes, meters are tools that must be used carefully
Cursa Charisma: Yes, Thaiis, the usual order was changed due to circumstance
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Thaiis Thei: usual order?
Cursa Charisma: "... rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their bodies"
DarkMajik Bauhaus: my kinda people!
Cursa Charisma: You forgot that line?
Cursa Charisma: Yes, Reavers are great
Thaiis Thei: ah no .. its juts morning
Thaiis Thei: well ok its technically afternoon, but I juts got up
Cursa Charisma: But here again, there was an IM "hey, let's have a Reaver raid", and people went with it or chose not to
DarkMajik Bauhaus: The reavers are NPC's?
Cursa Charisma: No
Cursa Charisma: That is, they are played by people
Cursa Charisma: They aren't continuing individual characters, because they die
Cursa Charisma: The good guys tend to win
Cursa Charisma: lol
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Okay, yeah
DarkMajik Bauhaus: That's my definition of an SL NPC
Cursa Charisma: Sorry, I answered too reflexively
DarkMajik Bauhaus: More there for storyline continuation, or random acts of violence.
Cursa Charisma: Yes, they are the "bogey man" of Firefly
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I see, the common enemy.
Cursa Charisma: Now, of course, someone could gather an ongoing Reaver crew and play it
Cursa Charisma: That would be challenging, because there are *very* few players who would be willing to let their precious characters get Reaved
DarkMajik Bauhaus: hehe
DarkMajik Bauhaus: See, that's sort of different from CoLA, we're more a factional conflict city
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Granted, there are things that happen that tend to draw us together (an army of clones is attacking at this very moment)
DarkMajik Bauhaus: But, thoes "alliances" are usually short lived, and full of back-stabbing.
Cursa Charisma nods
DarkMajik Bauhaus: "Let the neko die, then we'll go in."
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma: Excellent!
Thaiis Thei: nice
DarkMajik Bauhaus: brb
Cursa Charisma: kk
Cursa Charisma: hb
Bletaverse Server: Image received. Visit to see your post.
Joan Vhargon: Thank you all for listening. I have to deal with RL for a bit. I'll see you at the next talk.
Joan Vhargon: I have some needs to fulfill.
Reiko Soyinka: hehehehehe
Cursa Charisma: First-tier?
Thaiis Thei: Tahnk you
Joelle Tardis grins
Cursa Charisma: Joan, thank you very, very much
Keith Ringgold: Thanks for having me everyone... I hope to sit in on the next one if these.
Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Baroun
DarkMajik Bauhaus: back
Cursa Charisma: You're just in time - Joan has just left
Cursa Charisma: hehe
Baroun Tardis: Sorry I'm late
Cursa Charisma: wb, DarkMajik
Baroun Tardis: been kinda not my self lately
Cursa Charisma: NP, Baroun, there will be a transcript, as always
Cursa Charisma grins
Cursa Charisma: Sorry to hear that
Cursa Charisma winks at DarkMajik
Baroun Tardis: the oddest thing.... it keeps feeling like I'm made of meat, and looking over my own shoulder to see the world
Baroun Tardis: od
Baroun Tardis: odd
Cursa Charisma: Strange indeed
RP Nexus Current Event Poster: Baroun Tardis, this is a poster for the current event at the Nexus
Cursa Charisma: Sit your pixels down and it wil pass
Cursa Charisma: *will
Joelle Tardis winks at Baroun and poofs
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Hrm... it seems that the vampires are having photos with santa today. To kidnap or not to kidnap..
Cursa Charisma: Kidnap whom, the vampires, or Santa?
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Santa, of course.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: That's alot of meat.
Baroun Tardis: Vampires having photos with santa.... thie mind boggles
DarkMajik Bauhaus: My pack is hungry.
Cursa Charisma: Nice and fatty, too
Cursa Charisma: Good marbling
DarkMajik Bauhaus: Baroun, the vampires do lots of things that boggle my mind.
Thaiis Thei: I suport BBQing snata
DarkMajik Bauhaus: They had a blood drive, and were upset when very few showed...
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I think, next week, the pack will have a meat drive.
Cursa Charisma grins
DarkMajik Bauhaus: hack off your arm, and give you juice and cookies.
DarkMajik Bauhaus: what could possibly go wrong?
Cursa Charisma nods
Reiko Soyinka: lol
Reiko Soyinka: on that note...I will go roleplay.
Thaiis Thei: happy rping
Cursa Charisma: Well
DarkMajik Bauhaus: If you guys are ever in CoLA, be sure to send me an IM. I'll lend you a hand getting settled in.
Cursa Charisma: Thank you, DarkMajik
Cursa Charisma: I hope we'll see you here again as well
Cursa Charisma: If you have topics or speakers you'd like to see, please IM me any time
DarkMajik Bauhaus: will do!
Cursa Charisma: Transcripts of previous talks are here
Cursa Charisma: Just touch the posters for them
Thaiis Thei: I have to split
Thaiis Thei: Be happy and good
Cursa Charisma: OK, peace, Thaiis
DarkMajik Bauhaus: I'm going to head out as well, I think the vampires and my rocket launcher have a date.
Cursa Charisma: Excellent, give them one for us
(transcript ends)

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