March 28, 2010 "What does Roleplay Mean to You?" Part Deux

On Sunday, March 28, 2010, the Role Play Nexus hosted the second part of a discussion on the topic, "What Roleplay Means To You".

Attending were:
Allen Kerensky
Anastasia Horngold
Cursa Charisma
Emerald Levenque
Izzie Foxtrot
Joan Vhargon
Mikie Rhiadra
Reiko Soyinka
Svetlana Pleides
Thaiis Thei

(transcript begins)
[16:16] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Emerald
[16:16] Reiko Soyinka: WB Cursa, Hello Emerald.
[16:16] Emerald Levenque: Hello
[16:16] Emerald Levenque: I hope this isnt all for attendance ?
[16:17] Cursa Charisma: It looks as thought "part 2" was not an effective way of framing the event
[16:17] Cursa Charisma: People tend to drift in on their own times
[16:17] Cursa Charisma: I've had messages from a couple of people who will be coming late
[16:17] Emerald Levenque: ok
[16:18] Cursa Charisma: I'm not sure about Anastasia, though
[16:18] Cursa Charisma: Does everyone have a transcript of last week's discussion?
[16:18] Allen Kerensky: nope
[16:18] Allen Kerensky accepted your inventory offer.
[16:18] Emerald Levenque: No
[16:18] Emerald Levenque accepted your inventory offer.
[16:18] Reiko Soyinka: I have the questions...
[16:18] Reiko Soyinka accepted your inventory offer.
[16:19] Emerald Levenque accepted your inventory offer.
[16:19] Allen Kerensky accepted your inventory offer.
[16:19] Reiko Soyinka: thank you.
[16:20] Cursa Charisma: We went around and got folks' responses to the first three questions
[16:20] Cursa Charisma: A lot of significant questions and considerations came out
[16:21] Cursa Charisma: Emerald, is this your first visit to the Nexus?
[16:22] Emerald Levenque: Yes it is
[16:23] Cursa Charisma: Welcome
[16:23] Emerald Levenque: I'm not sure I know what the first 3 questions are ( just got the notecard, reading ) thank you
[16:23] Emerald Levenque: Does everyone here RP extensively ?
[16:23] Reiko Soyinka: I do.
[16:23] Allen Kerensky: i sent invites to Fake Jewell, Jorden Allen, Kerrigan Constantine, Marc Gravois, Meabh Muircastle, Tyro Dreamscape, and Sicarius Fegte
[16:23] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Allen
[16:23] Allen Kerensky: i am trying to learn what SL RP is
[16:23] Allen Kerensky: and how to do it
[16:24] Emerald Levenque: Those that have RP'd, have you RP'd for a lengthy period of time ? (at least a year or more)
[16:24] Cursa Charisma: Not everyone who comes here is a hardcore role player, Emerald, but most have long experience in it beyond SL
[16:24] Emerald Levenque: Are we supposed to return these notecards to anyone specific ?
[16:24] Cursa Charisma: Some are sim owners/admins
[16:24] Reiko Soyinka: I've RP'd most of my life...
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: No, that list of questions is not a survey
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: We just went around the circle last week and got people's answers to them
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Sicarius
[16:25] Allen Kerensky: i rolled my first D&D character in 1978 - the main problem I have is how to adapt a lifetime of tabletop RP to SL
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: And I hope you're not looking for people to put your dagger into
[16:25] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:26] Sicarius Fegte: hello, did I miss the meeting?
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: Not at all
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: People are slow to arrive today, it seems
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: The motto of the Nexus is, Do What's Fun When It's Fun
[16:27] Cursa Charisma: The posters advertising various events on the standing stones around us can be touched to receive transcripts of those events
[16:27] Emerald Levenque: Very um interesting avatar. I like that its neutral, Sicarius.
[16:28] Cursa Charisma: Sicarius, here is the list of questions we began discussing last week
[16:28] Cursa Charisma: And here is the transcript of the responses to the first three
[16:28] Sicarius Fegte accepted your inventory offer.
[16:28] Sicarius Fegte accepted your inventory offer.
[16:29] Cursa Charisma: Allen, you had to leave early last week, didn't you?
[16:30] Allen Kerensky: yup
[16:30] Allen Kerensky: when my cats set-to and freaked the kids out
[16:30] Cursa Charisma: What stage was the discussion at, do you remember?
[16:30] Allen Kerensky: question2
[16:31] Cursa Charisma: Well, if Emerald and Sicarius would like to, perhaps they can give us their responses to the first question, and then you, Allen, can join them on the second and third, and we'll see who's here then
[16:31] Cursa Charisma: If that's fun
[16:31] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:31] Reiko Soyinka: Sounds fun to me.
[16:32] Allen Kerensky: lead on!
[16:32] Sicarius Fegte: works for me
[16:32] Reiko Soyinka: Um, I'm gonna number the questions...
[16:33] Cursa Charisma: Well, Sicarius, why don't you go ahead and start us off, then? How much do you consciously think about your character during active RP?
(Is your character completely automatic ("internalized"), or do you have to consciously work out what to do moment by moment?)
[16:33] Sicarius Fegte: Well do be honest, I really dont think about my character much, I am more the force behind the community and back story
[16:33] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:34] Cursa Charisma: Does that mean your character is mainly a vehicle for management goals?
[16:34] Sicarius Fegte: as much as it is a character
[16:34] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: judge jury and executioner by the look...
[16:36] Emerald Levenque looks over at Sicarius
[16:36] Reiko Soyinka: Um, I was wondering what kind of backstory...that looks remarkably Alien-like.
[16:38] Allen Kerensky: (( I think the SL login problems today have a lot more people offline than usual, I don't see any of the usual suspects in today, like Vooper) ))
[16:39] Allen Kerensky: Cursa? you alive?
[16:39] Cursa Charisma: I am
[16:39] Allen Kerensky: it got quiet and I was waiting to see who Shub Internet was devouring
[16:39] Cursa Charisma: Sicarius, would you like to tell us a bit about your rp group and setting, or shall we move on to Emerald?
[16:40] Cursa Charisma: (Ia! Ia, Allen)
[16:40] Sicarius Fegte: Sorry bathroom called
[16:41] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:41] Sicarius Fegte: Well this is just a fun AV
[16:41] Sicarius Fegte: though it does look similar to one of our npcs
[16:41] Cursa Charisma: It looks fun
[16:41] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:42] Emerald Levenque: smiles
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: Sicarius, would you like to tell us a bit about your rp group and setting, or shall we move on to Emerald?
[16:43] Emerald Levenque: May I add something to Sicarius's appearance ?I have to say, it is rather intriguing and refreshing to see ppl play non human characters. Also, it is extremely wonderful, and I cant state that enough , to see a non sexy avatar in a roleplay situation
[16:43] Sicarius Fegte: as for the backstory, in a nutshell, rather then being apocolyptic we are more DURING the onset of the apocolypse
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: The End of Days?
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: ah there we go, sorry
[16:43] Sicarius Fegte: Yep
[16:44] Sicarius Fegte: TY Emerald and we do actually get a lot of nonhuman
[16:44] Sicarius Fegte: I think terrans are our smallest group
[16:44] Emerald Levenque: Its rare almost anywhere I've looked at, but please sorry for the intrusion, please go on
[16:45] Sicarius Fegte: but yeah lets face it, in SL cost favors humans usually
[16:45] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:46] Emerald Levenque: It's unforunately truly
[16:46] Emerald Levenque: I think all the different aspects add a very rich environment. Humans are dull
[16:46] Emerald Levenque: Actually, anything humanoid is dull ( including me lol )
[16:46] Reiko Soyinka raises hand
[16:47] Sicarius Fegte: lol
[16:47] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Mikie!
[16:48] Mikie Rhiadra: evnin
[16:49] Mikie Rhiadra accepted your inventory offer.
[16:49] Mikie Rhiadra accepted your inventory offer.
[16:49] Cursa Charisma: Mikie, here are a list of questions about rp, and the transcript of last week's discussion, where we got responses to the first three
[16:49] Reiko Soyinka: I've been in SL a shade over two years...in that time, I've seen nekos go from all natural colors with matching ears and catlike tails to caucasoid humans with horse tails in neon colors...I don't think it is cost that keeps so many in human avatars.
[16:49] Mikie Rhiadra: ty Cursa
[16:49] Reiko Soyinka: I think it might be fear.
[16:49] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Izzie!
[16:50] Allen Kerensky: fear of?
[16:50] Izzie Foxtrot: nǐ​hǎo (Hi, How are you?)
[16:50] Izzie Foxtrot accepted your inventory offer.
[16:50] Allen Kerensky: fear of bright colors?
[16:50] Izzie Foxtrot accepted your inventory offer.
[16:50] Reiko Soyinka: Nihao, Izzie.
[16:50] Reiko Soyinka: No, fear of not being accepted.
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Svetka
[16:50] Sicarius Fegte: oh I do, nekos are on the cheap end compared to something high detail and very non-human
[16:50] Svetlana Pleides accepted your inventory offer.
[16:50] Svetlana Pleides accepted your inventory offer.
[16:51] Cursa Charisma: Izzie, Svetka, there are the list of questions and the transcript from last week, when we got responses to the first three
[16:51] Reiko Soyinka: Sicarus, that is not the point...they went from something slightly non-human to something completely human...
[16:51] Svetlana Pleides: hello...
[16:51] Cursa Charisma: Once Izzie and Svetka rez in and find seats, we can continue
[16:51] Reiko Soyinka: And it isn't cost...You can find some rather good non-human avi's for free at Grendels.
[16:52] Mikie Rhiadra: (afkish a bit, rl suppertime)
[16:52] Cursa Charisma: (np, Mikie)
[16:52] Svetlana Pleides: I like grendals too.
[16:52] Cursa Charisma: Alright, shall we move on and ask Emerald about the first question?
[16:52] Sicarius Fegte: Yes but there are many in SL and even specificlaly RP communities that never heard of Grendals
[16:52] Cursa Charisma: How much do you consciously think about your character during active RP?
(Is your character completely automatic ("internalized"), or do you have to consciously work out what to do moment by moment?)
[16:53] Svetlana Pleides: I am pretty much a method actress..
[16:53] Svetlana Pleides: i am my character so is automatic..
[16:53] Cursa Charisma: You're next, Svetka, after Emerald
[16:53] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:53] Svetlana Pleides: oops
[16:53] Emerald Levenque: Oh if you dont mind, I'd rather here everyone else's first
[16:54] Cursa Charisma: Alright
[16:54] Emerald Levenque: I dont get to roleplay so much here, so I dont have much to add
[16:54] Emerald Levenque: And besides *points to herself* I'm humanoid, rather booring
[16:54] Svetlana Pleides: not necessarily..
[16:54] Cursa Charisma: Svetka, go ahead, then
[16:54] Svetlana Pleides: well first off.. I am primarily in Botany Bay....
[16:55] Svetlana Pleides: and I am thinking I am the only "normal" person there..
[16:55] Svetlana Pleides: because I am the toekn human..
[16:55] Reiko Soyinka grins at Svetlana
[16:55] Svetlana Pleides: but that is not that boring..
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: What are the other characters then?
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: Cyborgs, mainly?
[16:55] Svetlana Pleides: nekos..
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: Ah
[16:56] Svetlana Pleides: well one gal is a cyborg.. basically a brain in a people suit
[16:56] Svetlana Pleides: one is Baset, who is sometimes a cat..
[16:56] Svetlana Pleides: one is rabbit creature with tenticles up its back..
[16:57] Cursa Charisma: OK
[16:57] Svetlana Pleides: there have been Orions...
[16:58] Sicarius Fegte: I apologize, community issues, if anyone asked me a question I missed it
[16:58] Svetlana Pleides: cyborgs, androids, a coupel of sibling who look kind of draconic..
[16:58] Cursa Charisma: You're good, Sicarius, np
[16:58] Cursa Charisma: And Svetka, you consider yourself a "method actor" when it comes to character running?
[16:59] Svetlana Pleides: da.. I get into character..I think like her...
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: Like speech patterns, even outside the rp environment
[16:59] Cursa Charisma winks
[16:59] Svetlana Pleides: da..
[16:59] Svetlana Pleides: exactly!!!
[16:59] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: Great
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: OK, let's try and avoid repeating from last week, so let's skip over to Izzie on the first question
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: How much do you consciously think about your character during active RP?
(Is your character completely automatic ("internalized"), or do you have to consciously work out what to do moment by moment?)
[17:00] Svetlana Pleides: is just more fun
[17:00] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: Immersion
[17:00] Reiko Soyinka: yes.
[17:00] Reiko Soyinka: immersion.
[17:01] Izzie Foxtrot: I usally just wing it... im not as classy ore educated as my charecter. Somethings i plan out but really havent even been doing much RP lately
[17:02] Cursa Charisma: OK
[17:02] Cursa Charisma: So you try to think about what the character would do or say, or you just let it happen, for the most part?
[17:03] Izzie Foxtrot: usally just let it happen...
[17:03] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:03] Cursa Charisma: OK, let's skip on over to Mikie then
[17:03] Cursa Charisma: Unless the hot stove has her in its thrall
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: OK, let's hope she can escape its toils at some point
[17:04] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Thaiis
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Emerald, perhaps you'd like to address the question now, or tell us a bit about your rp background and interest
[17:05] Thaiis Thei: greetingsd all
[17:05] Sicarius Fegte: ah, an issue that requieres my attention has cropped up. I will try to return once its concluded. If not I hope to be a part of future meetings
[17:05] Reiko Soyinka: ohai, Thaiis.
[17:05] Allen Kerensky: understood Sicarius, hope it squares away!
[17:06] Sicarius Fegte: oh it will, one way or another, whether it be reason or ban :0
[17:06] Sicarius Fegte: :)
[17:06] Reiko Soyinka: hehehe
[17:06] Cursa Charisma: Sicarius, good luck, and come back for transcripts or IM me any time
[17:06] Emerald Levenque smiles and waves
[17:07] Emerald Levenque: Sure shall I go now then ?
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: Please
[17:07] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:07] Emerald Levenque: lol ok
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: Anastasia!
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: You made it
[17:07] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:08] Emerald Levenque: Well honestly I have looked at several roleplay sims. I'm mostly into syfy (yes I know that's spelled wrong), but have tried some historical ones
[17:08] Anastasia Horngold: Hi, sorry, I completely lost track of time! Hi everyone.
[17:08] Emerald Levenque waves and smiles hi to Anastasia
[17:08] Cursa Charisma: We're catching up on the questions with the folks who weren't here last time
[17:08] Anastasia Horngold: super
[17:08] Bletaverse Server: Image received. Visit http://bletaverse.com/Cursa%20Charisma to see your post.
[17:09] Keepin' It Virtual: Allen Kerensky, the line between role-play and offline relationships is one of the dilemmas of Second Life
[17:09] Emerald Levenque: As far as my character, I tend to be in character at least mentally when I'm roleplaying. Even when I'm in ooc sometimes I still have my character in mind
[17:09] Cursa Charisma: So you're mainly immersive
[17:09] Emerald Levenque: I only really consciously work at it when I'm not in the mood and "have" to RP (say becuase there is something setup I have to do )
[17:09] Emerald Levenque: Yes, mainly
[17:09] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:09] Cursa Charisma: Great
[17:09] Emerald Levenque: to the point, sometimes ppl think when I am ooc, that my ic is the real me , which is actually the other way around
[17:10] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:10] Cursa Charisma: Interesting
[17:10] Emerald Levenque: When Im in an IC interaction, my ooc tends to go that way also
[17:10] Svetlana Pleides: that can get messy...
[17:10] Emerald Levenque: It's as, how shall I put it, some people can wihtout difficulty separate SL and RL, I tend to go in 1 mode that dy or that moment
[17:10] Emerald Levenque: oops, day , typo
[17:10] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Emerald
[17:11] Emerald Levenque: Also, I tend to be non sexual unless I'm extremely horny lol which unfortunately, and why I mention that , is tis difficult to find honest good excellent roleplay unless it involves that
[17:11] Emerald Levenque: (usually not always lol)
[17:11] Emerald Levenque: yvw :)
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: Very interesting point
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: There is a lot of sex-related rp, to be sure, but do others agree that it's difficult to find honest good excellent roleplay unless it involves that?
[17:12] Allen Kerensky: depends on your goal at that moment
[17:12] Reiko Soyinka: umm, partial agreement...
[17:12] Allen Kerensky: if your goal is sex-related ... then...
[17:12] Cursa Charisma asks generally for discussion purposes, and because he has no experience with sex-related rp
[17:12] Allen Kerensky: if yer in the mood, yer in the mood
[17:12] Svetlana Pleides bites her lip.
[17:13] Emerald Levenque: Well at some point, one of the characters always gets to there, and to be frank, I find it tiresome
[17:13] Anastasia Horngold: So far I've just found that IC and OOC are not very well separated in most interactions. This is not referring to the sexual question, just in general.
[17:13] Emerald Levenque: I have yet to be involved in some logical, well played out immersive dramatic roleplay that doesntinvolve someone's clothes (any part of it ) coming off, or some act or otherwise being committed, whether I'm involved or not
[17:13] Allen Kerensky: it can be helpful to declare some sims "sex-free RP" for your own purposes, like a desert sci-fi sim you are in, and others as "good to go"
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: wow Emerald come ot Babbage
[17:14] Reiko Soyinka: When I tell them I'm not interested in sexual angles, many just walk away.
[17:14] Reiko Soyinka: and I do not play in adult sims.
[17:14] Emerald Levenque: I sometimes dont get that chance and no Im not on adult sims, just mature. I dont think its the sims as much as the characters involved
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: absolutely
[17:15] Cursa Charisma: If I understood correctly, Emerald's point was that deep rp tends to lead in that direction, is that right?
[17:15] Allen Kerensky: strangely, the adult sim (Gorean) I occasionally RP in is the least "sexed" sim I've RPed in
[17:15] Thaiis Thei: the ability to create emotional tension without using sex is beyond many people
[17:15] Anastasia Horngold: Is there a difference between men & women in the interest in sex RP?
[17:15] Allen Kerensky: good point
[17:15] Emerald Levenque: OMG soo true Thaiis !
[17:15] Cursa Charisma: Good question, Anastasia
[17:15] Anastasia Horngold: Thaiis, xlt point
[17:15] Reiko Soyinka: Yes...agree with Thaiis.
[17:15] Emerald Levenque: As well, drama seems to be limited to simple hate /love scenarios.
[17:16] Cursa Charisma: The weakness Thaiis brings up is common in other forms of entertainment such as books, films, and television, is it not?
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: Babbage is a success at doing it without sex
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: it is a mature sim but overt sex is not tolerated
[17:16] Anastasia Horngold: Most of the decent -- or let's say at least attentive -- conversations I've had have been with people flirting
[17:17] Anastasia Horngold: (Some present company excepted!!)
[17:17] Cursa Charisma: So is this mainly a question about distinguishing ic from ooc? Certainly, ic flirting need not be the same as explicit sexual depiction
[17:17] Thaiis Thei gave you Kas & Thei - Humble Yet Superlative Merchandise & Scripting.
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: non human avatars can cut down the sex and flirting factor a great deal.
[17:18] Reiko Soyinka: I'm interested in what Allen said.
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: unless they have tentacles
[17:18] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:18] Anastasia Horngold: lol
[17:18] Reiko Soyinka: LOL
[17:18] Svetlana Pleides: Yes...
[17:18] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Allen, I think Svetka would say the opposite
[17:18] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:18] Emerald Levenque: lol got you there
[17:18] Svetlana Pleides: what?
[17:18] Thaiis Thei: some people like tentacles
[17:18] Allen Kerensky: robotics are good for avoiding flirts - if you are genderless, it drops the topic form the mix pretty well
[17:18] Svetlana Pleides: it depends on how non human.
[17:19] Allen Kerensky: the point was - pick an avatar the factors OUT sex, and it occurs to people a lot less to actually chase you
[17:19] Svetlana Pleides: if you are obviously robot.. but if nobody knows till you take your face off....
[17:19] Anastasia Horngold: Yes. But it also depends on the person! I met an extremely sexy book the other day!
[17:19] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: i didn't say 100% - but if you can walk through ahern without a pickup line, you should be okay
[17:20] Emerald Levenque: Oh I dont know. I've seen a fair amount of robotics who were dressed rather sexily rather than hm, as a robot ?
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: then try BOX BOT
[17:20] Anastasia Horngold: Really, it was the most erotic conversation I've ever had here--completely unintentionally!
[17:20] Emerald Levenque: what's box bot ?
[17:20] Svetlana Pleides: yeah well the person is one thing... but if they are a giant cockroach.. sorry nothing in that is sexy
[17:20] Cursa Charisma: Was that ic or ooc, Anastasia?
[17:20] Emerald Levenque: LOL
[17:20] Allen Kerensky: the freebie box robot av in the Inventory Library
[17:20] Anastasia Horngold: It was a random OOC encounter
[17:20] Anastasia Horngold: Very amusing.
[17:22] Anastasia Horngold: But IC, the most dynamic interactions have always had SOME element of sex, or if not that, then guns.
[17:22] Svetlana Pleides: without sex and violence what do you have?
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Alright, let's move on to the second question, OK?
[17:22] Allen Kerensky: church? oh wait...
[17:22] Anastasia Horngold: rock and roll?
[17:22] Emerald Levenque: Jane austen :P who happens to have good stories
[17:22] Emerald Levenque: LOL
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Emerald, hehe
[17:22] Anastasia Horngold: Jane austen is FULL of sex!
[17:22] Svetlana Pleides: good poiint
[17:22] Anastasia Horngold grins.
[17:23] Reiko Soyinka: Um, the most dynamic I've been in have had death lurking in the background, not sex.
[17:23] Allen Kerensky: nod Reiko
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: Svetka, do you want to respond to the next question?
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: Do you usually participate in preset RP scenarios or not?
(What kinds of groups do you work the scenarios out in? How many people?)
[17:24] Anastasia Horngold: Maybe you've all discussed this already, but have the most dynamic RPs been spontaneous, or prearranged?
[17:24] Anastasia Horngold: haha, cursa
[17:24] Svetlana Pleides: Botany Bay is well.. not really sure how to classify it..
[17:24] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:25] Izzie Foxtrot slips out quietly to attend to some RL
[17:25] Svetlana Pleides: I means its a town.. and whiel I think some folks have ideas where they want to lead the storyline..
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: hb, Izzie
[17:25] Svetlana Pleides: it kind of just moves along with the odd strange visitor
[17:26] Svetlana Pleides: popping in on occasion.
[17:26] Cursa Charisma: So more spontaneous?
[17:26] Svetlana Pleides: yeah.. more spontanious
[17:26] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:26] Cursa Charisma: OK, let's skip over to see if Mikie's at the keyboard...
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: Thaiis, you addressed this last week, correct?
[17:27] Thaiis Thei: the spontaneous factor?
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: Yes, spontaneous vs. planned
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: That was a rhetorical question
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:27] Cursa Charisma: So, Emerald, it's back to you
[17:27] Thaiis Thei: oh
[17:27] Thaiis Thei: its too early for rhetoric :)
[17:28] Anastasia Horngold: lol
[17:28] Cursa Charisma recalls Thaiis expressing clear views on this question
[17:28] Allen Kerensky: its never too early for rhetoric... or captain crunch.
[17:28] Thaiis Thei: whats' captain crunch?
[17:28] Emerald Levenque: ok ? what'sthe question lol
[17:28] Cursa Charisma: Do you usually participate in preset RP scenarios or not?
(What kinds of groups do you work the scenarios out in? How many people?)
[17:28] Svetlana Pleides: oh its a great cerial
[17:28] Mikie Rhiadra sneaks back in
[17:29] Cursa Charisma: wb, Mikie!
[17:29] Cursa Charisma: Did you want to address the second question?
[17:29] Emerald Levenque: Oh, Hm. Depends. I think a backbone outline is great, it gives an idea of where the drama is most likely to be set in, and it gives a nice area of focus instead of everyon'es roleplay scattered
[17:29] Svetlana Pleides: several great cerials
[17:29] Cursa Charisma nods to Emerald
[17:29] Cursa Charisma: Which type do you find yourself engaged in more often?
[17:29] Emerald Levenque: But, I dont like having preset limiting defintions as to who "wins" or not, as a rule
[17:29] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:29] Emerald Levenque: Just by default, preset
[17:30] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:30] Emerald Levenque: Sometimes spontaneous, but that is more by accident than not
[17:30] Cursa Charisma: OK. Mikie, how about you?
[17:31] Mikie Rhiadra: preset is fine on some occasion, so long as it doesnt go much beyond giving an setting/ environment and a general start point. I prefer most times to jsut see where the dice fall.
[17:31] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Great, let's move on then to the third question
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Do you have any trouble coming up with RP scenarios, and why?
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Svetka?
[17:31] Mikie Rhiadra: I've participated in some events that were more quest type, where there were some parts that coupdl play out any way, but others that woudl come to a predetermined end, with the inventive partb eing how it woudl wind up at that end from where you were
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: So, Mikie, do you find that sort of scenario to be more or less common?
[17:32] Reiko Soyinka: that sounds like fun.
[17:32] Anastasia Horngold: Mikie, that's an interesting approach
[17:32] Emerald Levenque: (excuse me afk for 1 moment, phone)
[17:32] Mikie Rhiadra: i find a lot of people go into scenarios with their own agenda
[17:32] Svetlana's tummy: Mommy needs to eat healthy and take her vitamins.
[17:32] Anastasia Horngold: hb
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: (hb Emerald)
[17:32] Svetlana Pleides: I liked the quest type thing.. which I think that Val and I need one more save for the trifecta.
[17:33] Mikie Rhiadra: there will always be some who no matter the situation will try to be the star or hero, and you just have to roll with it
[17:33] Anastasia Horngold: So there's some kind of setup, and then a goal, and then you just see what happens?
[17:33] Prenatal vitamin: You have 5 seconds to attach it.
[17:33] Mikie Rhiadra: everythign in the middle is on the fly
[17:33] Prenatal vitamin: Svetlana take 1 prenatal vitamin daily so that you deliver a happy healthy baby.
[17:34] Mikie Rhiadra: brb gettin called afk
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: hb
[17:34] Svetlana Pleides: but everyone can be a star in some way or another..
[17:34] Anastasia Horngold: Actually that sounds like it could be very productive
[17:34] Mikie Rhiadra: back
[17:34] Anastasia Horngold: I've found the RPs where there were "steps" planned to be kind of clumsy
[17:34] Anastasia Horngold: wb
[17:34] Thaiis Thei: excuse me I must away....
[17:35] Thaiis Thei: ill be back as soon as i can
[17:35] Anastasia Horngold: bye thaiis
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: hb, Thaiis
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: Busy day
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: So, are we ready to move on?
[17:35] Allen Kerensky: nod
[17:35] Anastasia Horngold: sure
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: Svetka, do you have any trouble coming up with RP scenarios, and why?
[17:36] Mikie Rhiadra: true svetlana everyone really is, though there will always be a handful who want to be the focus of every scenario
[17:36] Svetlana Pleides: nyet. something always comes up..
[17:36] Cursa Charisma: You mean that you can always find ways to play off whatever is happening?
[17:37] Svetlana Pleides: I guess is matter of perspective Mikie.. I know the thing was about you and it was a blast.. and if you tell your story.. you are undoubtably the star.
[17:37] Svetlana Pleides: oh yes. because things happen.. people show up..
[17:37] Mikie Rhiadra: yes, in that situation, that was my exit from firefly rp in general
[17:37] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:37] Svetlana Pleides: we had a bounty hunter last night.. and an injured girl
[17:38] Svetlana Pleides: but getting back to Mikie's story.. when you tell it you are the star..
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: Mikie's point about people who seem to see other players as supporting cast to their own perpetual center of attention is an important one
[17:38] Svetlana Pleides: when I tell it. my little tiny bit of it.. undoubtably.. I am star..:)
[17:39] Mikie Rhiadra: agreed, the situations i refr to though are the ones where you are trying to tell your piece,b ut someone always swoops in and tries to maket he situation about them
[17:39] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:39] Anastasia Horngold nods
[17:39] Allen Kerensky: ... lack of a GM ...
[17:39] Svetlana Pleides: yeah..
[17:40] Allen Kerensky: even LARP has referees
[17:40] Svetlana Pleides: is difference of perspective and mutual support..
[17:40] Mikie Rhiadra: I've seen Gms do it Allen
[17:40] Anastasia Horngold: I've walked in and interrupted things a couple of times, and only later realized there was an active drama going on
[17:40] Anastasia Horngold: Of course, that's realistic in its own way.
[17:40] Allen Kerensky: even GMs need to learn too
[17:40] Mikie Rhiadra: walking into an active drama is one thing, it can happen, walking in and trying to take over the scene is another
[17:40] Anastasia Horngold: true
[17:41] Cursa Charisma: Anastasia, do you think the fault lies with you there, or with the general fluidity of ic and ooc interaction in SL?
[17:41] Anastasia Horngold: Oh, I think it was just walking in and starting to talk instead of waiting a few minutes to see what was already going on.
[17:41] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:42] Reiko Soyinka: That's real, too, though.
[17:42] Anastasia Horngold: That's a point where RL body language tells you that you've interrupted, where in SL there aren't the same clues
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: So, shall we skip over to Mikie on the third question?
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: Do you have any trouble coming up with RP scenarios, and why?
[17:43] Allen Kerensky: I'd like to answer that one
[17:43] Cursa Charisma: Alright, Allen
[17:43] Mikie Rhiadra: usually not, most of the peopel i interact with are great and go along witht he flow no matter what seems to come along
[17:43] Cursa Charisma: Sorry, you missed that one last time?
[17:43] Allen Kerensky: nod
[17:43] Allen Kerensky: after Mikie
[17:43] Cursa Charisma: My mistake
[17:43] Mikie Rhiadra: even though i've notactively ben rping for a while, i can still find ways to sluip in if i want to
[17:43] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: OK, Mikie. Allen?
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: i have a horrible time with RP scenarios in SL
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: If the sim doesn't have a consistent backstory arc...
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: if the players have no public backstory or even a clue on title, role, reason for being in the region
[17:45] Allen Kerensky: if there's no goal to the session
[17:45] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:45] Allen Kerensky: when there's no strong framework to the "world" or the "people in it" and you have star trek and star wars and whatever else raining out of the sky, its nonsensical chaos
[17:45] Reiko Soyinka: Yay!
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: i consider a scenario to be like an episodic TV arc
[17:46] Cursa Charisma: So, you mean that you experience a void of clear character motivation: why characters are where they are and what they are seeking?
[17:46] Svetlana Pleides: but there are people who want to be able to mix those elements on a more or less equal footing
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: you have some reasonably stable group of players/actors that you can count on to fill ROLES
[17:46] Allen Kerensky: yes, when anyone can show up at any time, and there's no set goals, direction, etc... its always pot luck RPing with no goal
[17:47] Svetlana Pleides: but sometimes that is the fun of it
[17:47] Emerald Levenque: (back sorry)
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: pot-luck RP makes the least sense to me and I can rarely fit my character into it, because I don't know anyone, and cliques can be pretty exclusive
[17:47] Cursa Charisma: So this is a difference of preference for planning vs. spontaneity
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: its a preference for at least a backdrop that makes sense
[17:47] Svetlana Pleides: well as an alien.. your motivation is simple..
[17:47] Mikie Rhiadra: I do agree there are definite cliques within rp
[17:47] Allen Kerensky: and a setting that leaves enough "holes" for people to start somewhere clearly
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: one place I landed, everyone was chartered nobles
[17:48] Cursa Charisma: Allen, do you use IM to coordinate with people in a new rp situation to clarify motivations and goals?
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: and no way to BECOME one unless you knew someone
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: no
[17:48] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: I've tried and people get bitchy
[17:48] Allen Kerensky: "no OOC!"
[17:48] Cursa Charisma: Even in IM?
[17:48] Anastasia Horngold: hmm
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: and the lack of consistent "rules of behavior" from person to person and sim to sim complicate so badly
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: yes even in IM
[17:49] Reiko Soyinka: I second what Allen is saying.
[17:49] Anastasia Horngold: about IM?
[17:50] Allen Kerensky: so, you land, read notecards, and spend 2+ weeks trying to figure out what is happening in sim before you can start to try to design your own scenario - and lack of GMs or referees to integrate new players hurts badly
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: In the situation that Allen describes, I would find fault with the lack of IM support and coordination. What do others think?
[17:50] Allen Kerensky: and when you try to start a character, everyone else is so wrapped in their story, which they don't communicate to you, that you just kind of "butt in or butt out"
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: and if no sim admins "write you in" then you leave pretty soon after
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: nope, not bitter
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: just tired of it happening
[17:51] Anastasia Horngold: Sounds like some kind of general agreement about IM during RP would be helpful, for each sim perhaps
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: In other discussions, we've seen that "people don't read", so expecting new players to master materials on notecards before entering rp seems unrealistic at best
[17:51] Allen Kerensky: when I greeted for SR, I tried to greet *everyone* and give them a "friend in the sim" as a last resort
[17:51] Svetlana Pleides: nods
[17:51] Reiko Soyinka: I've played in a community, on the fringes, for almost a year before being admitted.
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: but I was only one person
[17:52] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Allen, I experienced that from Falcon and yourself in Splintered Rock, and it made a big difference in my experience there
[17:52] Allen Kerensky: and that ended up being full time and no chance to RP - my life was OOC
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: Baroun could make up scenarios that tolerated pot-luck players showing up
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: but I never could
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: I tended to try to design in-sim "hooks" to tell backstory and help solo players find their way
[17:53] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:53] Allen Kerensky: but those weren't scenarios... just clues and hooks and flavor text
[17:53] Cursa Charisma: Yes, an ic method of welcoming people to join
[17:53] Reiko Soyinka: That kind of "parenting" does turn into a full time, OOC, job.
[17:54] Allen Kerensky: so... sorry to rant its the main problem I've had with RP in SL
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: np Allen
[17:54] Anastasia Horngold: np at all
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: You raise several important points
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: Alright, Emerald, do you want to address the question of whether you have trouble coming up with scenarios for RP?
[17:55] Emerald Levenque: Sure. Being that I dont get to RP too much ( mostly lately due to RL ), I find, that "set" scenarios leave me out in a manner of speaking
[17:55] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:55] Emerald Levenque: Often, I will try to set up individual scenarios with people
[17:55] Emerald Levenque: Sometimes it wokrs, sometimes it doesnt. Their ego's factor in a great deal
[17:55] Allen Kerensky: can't design a scenario well, in advance, unless you know the players who are showing up
[17:55] Emerald Levenque: Right, so mostly there are scenarios that need to be created for an overrall story and last year I was involved mostly with those scenes
[17:56] Emerald Levenque: And very little spontaneity
[17:56] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:56] Emerald Levenque: But it is true, as it was already pointed out
[17:56] Emerald Levenque: Unless more often than not in created storylines, if you are not 'in the know' you are basically, out in a very literal sense.
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: If there is not sufficient IM coordination to bring people in
[17:57] Emerald Levenque: Which makes roleplay difficult for most, and sim owners will lose that extra richness from the " outsiders "
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[17:57] Emerald Levenque: True, but in some sims, even in IM it's already a clique. Those people have often roleplayed together already
[17:57] Cursa Charisma whispers: Simply acting out a preplanned script isn't going to be what most people enjoy as "role playing"
[17:57] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:58] Mikie Rhiadra: i know i woud rather jsut see where thigns go than be handed a script to follow
[17:58] Allen Kerensky: yeah, that's being an actor in a play
[17:58] Emerald Levenque: ( by scenarios I mean general story lines, details are often filled in but still, its the most well known players that usually participate )
[17:58] Allen Kerensky: not a playwright
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: Yes, if people have something going on, and someone new comes in, it's their responsibility to bring him in in a way that is fun for everyone
[17:58] Anastasia Horngold: Yes, cursa, and when I've tried that, it seems very halting and stilted
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: It's simple enlightened self-interest
[17:58] Emerald Levenque: Yes I agree Cursa. But rarely happens
[17:58] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Joan
[17:58] Emerald Levenque: I have noticed a great many roleplay lately being extensively self involved. It's a huge turn off
[17:58] Emerald Levenque smiles and waves to Joan
[17:59] Svetlana Pleides waves
[17:59] Joan Vhargon: Sorry I'm late. Its been quite a day.
[17:59] Joan's translator: Désolé, je suis en retard. Son été un bon jour.
[17:59] Emerald Levenque: But that's it from me
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Emerald
[17:59] Reiko Soyinka: /giggles
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: And now we're caught up and ready to move on to new questions!
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Just to recap, this discussion began last week
[18:00] Cursa Charisma: Anastasia framed the topic of what RP means to each of us, and gave us this list of questions to consider
[18:00] Joan Vhargon accepted your inventory offer.
[18:00] Joan Vhargon accepted your inventory offer.
[18:00] Cursa Charisma: Joan, there is the list of questions, and the transcript of last week's discussion
[18:00] Joan Vhargon: Thank you.
[18:01] Joan Vhargon: Got them all
[18:01] Cursa Charisma: Great
[18:01] Cursa Charisma: We have movie soundtrack music on the audio stream, and many find setting their viewers to Midnight to be most attractive here
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Are we ready to move on to the next question?
[18:02] Anastasia Horngold: sure
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Woo-hoo!
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Alright, let's go to Svetka
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Do you find it satisfying to interact as another character than yourself?
[18:02] Svetlana Pleides: da...
[18:02] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[18:03] Svetlana Pleides: sometimes it does cut down on the sexuality aspect, for those tiems you don't want to play that
[18:04] Svetlana Pleides: sometimes... you just like to look at life differently. from a different perspective
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: You mean, play a different character from your usual one?
[18:04] Svetlana Pleides: da..
[18:04] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: (chat lagg)
[18:04] Svetlana Pleides: I also play a robot.. Seven
[18:04] Anastasia Horngold: brb
[18:04] Cursa Charisma: hb
[18:05] Svetlana Pleides: and it allows me to explore the logical emotionless side of things
[18:05] Cursa Charisma: Svetka, do any of your characters (to ask the question from the other side) resemble your offline self?
[18:05] Svetlana Pleides: well we're mostly the same age...
[18:06] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:06] Svetlana Pleides: but other than that..
[18:06] Anastasia Horngold: back
[18:06] Svetlana Pleides: I am not really russian, I was not born in space....
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: So as you say, RP is a way to explore other identities and perspectives
[18:06] Svetlana Pleides: da.. exactly
[18:06] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Great. Allen, how about you?
[18:07] Allen Kerensky: yes, I find it immensely satisfying to slap facehuggers on meat snacks like you all and watch you explode into a new generation of my kind
[18:07] Svetlana Pleides: do you, Allan find life as an Alien different from your RL side?
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: Well, I wasn't aware you did much rp as an Alien, Allen - do you?
[18:07] Allen Kerensky: my entire SecondLife is abotu not being myself and yes, regardless of the SL, or RP role, it has been interesting, frustrating, and more
[18:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:08] Allen Kerensky: no, this av gets far too little use - people won't RP with it
[18:08] Svetlana Pleides eyes dance merrily
[18:08] Allen Kerensky: they've seen the movie
[18:08] Reiko Soyinka: Geee, I wonder why...
[18:08] Cursa Charisma: This is a significant point - even ooc, how much do our SL selves reflect our offline selves?
[18:08] Svetlana Pleides: LOL.. everyone expects it to be short lived..
[18:08] Allen Kerensky: but as other characters... my normal pink "cotton candi" avatar as an SL female is very rewarding to play
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: some RP characters more than others
[18:09] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:09] Reiko Soyinka: Cursa...add that as question 10.
[18:09] Anastasia Horngold: yes please
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: depends on the roles I am in versus the roles the other players are in in the same session
[18:09] Allen Kerensky: my RL self is 100% present in my SL or RP self, which I then change consciously to match the role and character of the moment
[18:10] Svetlana's tummy: You feel Anastasia Samanthanova moving a little more. You should take a rest as your watch the baby move inside you!
[18:10] Allen Kerensky: done
[18:10] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Allen
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: Next?
[18:10] Reiko Soyinka: Very. I find I can explore aspects of humanity that are not "available" to me in my RL.
[18:11] Reiko Soyinka: done
[18:11] Svetlana Pleides: nods
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: Alright. Joan, are you with us?
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Apparently not at present
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Mikie, do you want to take the question?
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: Do you find it satisfying to interact as another character than yourself?
[18:12] Mikie Rhiadra: sure
[18:12] Mikie Rhiadra: i don't mind playing a fill in character once in a while, but forthe most part, i prefer to play my usual, mainly because i've invested so much into her. Though the fact she has multiple personalities can be interesting at times
[18:12] Anastasia Horngold: She does, Mikie?
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: And do one or more of those strongly resemble your offline self?
[18:13] Joan Vhargon: I'm back.
[18:13] Joan Vhargon: Sorry
[18:13] Anastasia Horngold: wb joan
[18:13] Mikie Rhiadra: bits of, but its much easier to be mroe confident behind an avatar than in the real world
[18:13] Joan Vhargon: ((I had to get dinner started))
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: wb Joan
[18:14] Cursa Charisma nods to Mikie
[18:14] Mikie Rhiadra: a lot of the preconceptions you face in every dya society based on appearance alone arent there in SL, so its easier to let aspects ofyourself through that you otherwise woudlnt
[18:14] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:14] Cursa Charisma: Important point
[18:14] Anastasia Horngold: that's the truth!
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: Or should we say that we can choose our appearances in SL to a much greater degree? I find that people still tend strongly to react to avatars based on appearance
[18:15] Allen Kerensky: plus, you have to tolerate frequent change well, in SL, or you can't cope - so flexible minds abound
[18:15] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:15] Mikie Rhiadra: very true Cursa
[18:15] Reiko Soyinka: Cursa is correct.
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: well, at least mine
[18:16] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:16] Svetlana Pleides: i/me laughs
[18:16] Allen Kerensky: ... try to give a colony some freebies and everyone gets upset and blows the place up.
[18:17] Mikie Rhiadra: the differnce being ist hat everyone is capable of creating a beautiful avatar. with very little work involve,d whereas we can't change our real world appearance quite so easily
[18:17] Allen Kerensky: tell me about it
[18:17] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:17] Svetlana Pleides: nods
[18:17] Anastasia Horngold: yep
[18:17] Allen Kerensky: sex change operations are way less expensive in SL
[18:17] Anastasia Horngold: rofl
[18:17] Allen Kerensky: click a radio button - DONE
[18:17] Cursa Charisma: And more easily reversible
[18:17] Mikie Rhiadra: repeatedly
[18:17] Svetlana Pleides: sex.. species change operation
[18:17] Anastasia Horngold: Fewer rejection problems. In all senses of the word!
[18:18] Joan Vhargon: How did I know you were going to say that Allen
[18:18] Anastasia Horngold: frin
[18:18] Anastasia Horngold: *grin
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Which makes it all the more interesting that people still respond so strongly to initial avatar appearance
[18:18] Anastasia Horngold: (invented a new 4-letter word)
[18:18] Anastasia Horngold: Cursa, that fascinates me constantly
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Is frin a nice word?
[18:18] Anastasia Horngold: Ask me later
[18:19] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: Will do
[18:19] Reiko Soyinka: put a z on it, and it is.
[18:19] Allen Kerensky: is a frin a sort of "frumpy grin" ?
[18:19] Anastasia Horngold: Have to think what would be most useful
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: Joan, would you like to respond to the question?
[18:19] Anastasia Horngold: or a happy frown?
[18:19] Joan Vhargon: sure
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: 2010-03-21 17:01:06 note card
[18:19] Emerald Levenque: ( sorry I have to leave, RL calls it's getting late here . Thanks for the interesting discussion . )
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: Do you find it satisfying to interact as another character than yourself?
[18:19] Joan Vhargon: As hard as I try I can't seem to play anything but myself. As much as I try to be other characters but they all seem to end up unsure and neurotic. I would like to play the self assured and professional Magistrate or the devious Bene Geserit security officer but they all seem to have the same issues that just so happen to coincide with my RL issues.
[18:19] Anastasia Horngold: by Em!
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: Emerald, a transcript will be available here later, or online
[18:19] Joan Vhargon: Bye Em.
[18:19] Cursa Charisma: Hope to see you again soon
[18:20] Allen Kerensky: unsure and neurotic? I missed that Magistrate then
[18:20] Joan Vhargon: I try to hide it.
[18:20] Joan Vhargon: But it seeps out.
[18:20] Anastasia Horngold: Joan, very funny.
[18:20] Reiko Soyinka: The magistrate is much more self-assured than the BG was.
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: and a snappier dresser
[18:21] Cursa Charisma: So there are limits to how independent your characters' identities become?
[18:21] Joan Vhargon: Yes she was. I feelI have personally changed in the last two years.
[18:21] Reiko Soyinka grins
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: BG are always so "practical"
[18:21] Joan Vhargon: I've gotten more Jaded and so has Joan Al Jofar.
[18:21] Joan Vhargon: I'm Jaded Joan.
[18:21] Allen Kerensky: (BG are Bene Gesserit from the Frank Herbert novel DUNE, for those who don't know)
[18:21] Reiko Soyinka: Me, too.
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Would you say that was more due to SL experiences or other experiences?
[18:22] Svetlana Pleides: green is pretty color
[18:22] Blue Myanamotu gave you Kotora Blue Rose.
[18:22] Reiko Soyinka: SL
[18:22] Joan Vhargon: For me it was RL.
[18:22] Anastasia Horngold: That's another question to add to the list, cursa--how we change due to SL experience
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: worth its own meeting, just that one question
[18:22] Anastasia Horngold: (Are you taking notes? Or should I go through the transcript?)
[18:22] Allen Kerensky: in fact, each of these questions should be its own focus
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[18:22] Cursa Charisma: Several of these would be good discussions in their own rights
[18:22] Anastasia Horngold: yes, allen
[18:23] Cursa Charisma: Anastasia, I believe it's your turn on the current one
[18:23] Anastasia Horngold: ah
[18:23] Anastasia Horngold: This one has multiple levels for me:
[18:23] Allen Kerensky curses the inability to rez her as another victim slips away without a free facehugger and "baby onboard" t-shirt
[18:23] Svetlana Pleides: I need the t-shirt...
[18:24] Anastasia Horngold: I have trouble connecting personally in SL due to the lack of body language, facial expression, etc.
[18:24] Reiko Soyinka: hehehehehehehe
[18:24] Anastasia Horngold: But given that,
[18:24] Anastasia Horngold: I do enjoy trying on other personalities
[18:24] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:24] Allen Kerensky: agreed, SL needs a "Do androids dream of electric sheep" style "mood organ" to help improve the non-verbal communications channels in SL
[18:24] Anastasia Horngold: This avi was my first, and I am very personally identified with it.
[18:25] Anastasia Horngold: I find it very hard to do anything at all unlike "me" in this form
[18:25] Mikie Rhiadra: same here
[18:25] Anastasia Horngold: nod
[18:25] Cursa Charisma: So use of text description, anims, and so forth are just inadequate in your experience?
[18:25] Joan Vhargon: I agree with Anastasia on that
[18:25] Allen Kerensky: its hard to be as immersed as RL, I would think, when you are reading it rather than feeling it
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: They help, and it's all fun, but I just don't really feel that I KNOW anyone
[18:26] Cursa Charisma: So you find it hard also to change the form of your av and play a different char with it?
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: BUT
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: But I've tried a couple of alts with great success
[18:26] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: Switching name and appearance, I was able to escape this identity
[18:26] Allen Kerensky: alts are one of the best ways to "try" Rps before you buy in
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: It was like putting on a costume, in theatre
[18:26] Anastasia Horngold: yes
[18:27] Anastasia Horngold: So in that sense, I've found it satisfying
[18:27] Anastasia Horngold: And I plan to do a lot more of that
[18:27] Anastasia Horngold: Done.
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: This is also an interesting question. In some rp groups and settings, it seems easier than in others to use the same avatar for totally different characters
[18:27] Anastasia Horngold: oh yes?
[18:27] Cursa Charisma: When I was in an ancient Egypt group last year, my avatar was always Cursa
[18:27] Reiko Soyinka: agreed.
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: But I played several characters
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Male, female
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Big, small
[18:28] Reiko Soyinka: Um, Cursa...
[18:28] Allen Kerensky: havign one name welded over your head complicates
[18:28] Anastasia Horngold: Did you have some kind of tag for identity?
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Some continuing, some one-time
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: Well, yes, that was the advantage of the ancient setting
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: The avatar name had to be ignored anyway
[18:28] Svetlana Pleides: but part of the fun is putting together the avatar..
[18:28] Cursa Charisma: So titlers were used to indicate characters
[18:28] Reiko Soyinka: Cursa...
[18:29] Reiko Soyinka: Cursa...
[18:29] Cursa Charisma: Yes?
[18:29] Reiko Soyinka: You are a gifted roleplayer...you made yourself into those different characters with very little ...a few words...
[18:29] Joan Vhargon: listens
[18:30] Reiko Soyinka: I was stunned to find out your were newish to it.
[18:31] Cursa Charisma: The question is, is it workable for most people to play multiple characters with a single avatar, or do we need to use alts to do that
[18:31] Reiko Soyinka: most need alts.
[18:32] Anastasia Horngold: Depends on the premise of the sim, but also on people's mental agility--both the player and the people watching that player
[18:32] Cursa Charisma nods to Anastasia
[18:33] Cursa Charisma: So are we ready for the next question?
[18:34] Anastasia Horngold: ok with me
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: Great
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: Svetka, here's the next one
[18:34] Cursa Charisma: Do you feel that you connect with people on a personal level, while playing another character?
(And is this important to you?)
[18:34] Mikie Rhiadra: yes, there are some that can't accept people as being a different character, i played an antagonist in rp as an NPC, yet there were those who woudl refer to her by name and claim to know wher whenever she showed up, but shew as supposed tob e a nameless, faceless character
[18:35] Cursa Charisma: Mikie brings up a crucial point: metagaming
[18:35] Cursa Charisma: Which definitely needs its own discussion
[18:35] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:35] Anastasia Horngold: ah, yes
[18:36] Svetlana Pleides whispers: isn't all of these discussions metagaming?
[18:36] Anastasia Horngold: put that one on the list
[18:36] Cursa Charisma: Well, Svetka, we are ooc here
[18:36] Cursa Charisma: Metagaming is acting in character based on knowledge not available to the character
[18:37] Joan Vhargon: But something else was going on there in that example.
[18:37] Anastasia Horngold: I also hear people complain about god-moding
[18:37] Joan Vhargon: The NPC took on a life of its own.
[18:37] Svetlana Pleides: that is what I thought you described is.. god modding
[18:37] Anastasia Horngold: "mode-ing"?
[18:37] Cursa Charisma: God mode is different yet again
[18:38] Mikie Rhiadra: though in no instance did the npc ever give a name, shew as essentially cannon fodder most of the time
[18:38] Cursa Charisma: Gode moding is declaring actions for other people's characters
[18:38] Cursa Charisma: Or strongly affecting them without permission
[18:39] Cursa Charisma: Mikie's experience is common, isn't it?
[18:39] Anastasia Horngold: Mikie, just curious--how were others supposed to know that you were nameless?
[18:39] Svetlana Pleides: titler?
[18:40] Svetlana Pleides: oh wait.. it'd be blank....
[18:40] Mikie Rhiadra: we used DCS on the sim at the time, and all that was fiven was the rank of our characters. our job at the time was basically to swoop in, attack, and get killed, often with no provocation
[18:40] Cursa Charisma: I've used "cloaked figure" as a title
[18:41] Anastasia Horngold: I see
[18:41] Cursa Charisma: And yes, using avatar name and group tag info is metagaming
[18:42] Anastasia Horngold: Can be confusing, with a bunch of text all there above someone's head
[18:42] Joan Vhargon: Question: If its metagaming why do we have/use group titles
[18:42] Joan Vhargon: ?
[18:42] Cursa Charisma: A good question, Joan
[18:42] Cursa Charisma: I've often wondered
[18:42] Anastasia Horngold: rezzing permissions sometimes group-specific?
[18:43] Mikie Rhiadra: that is often the case
[18:43] Cursa Charisma: And also wonder why LL doesn't allow parcel owners to deactivate tags
[18:43] Allen Kerensky: if its roleplaying, titlers facilitate learning the roles people are playing
[18:43] Allen Kerensky: its metagaming as enabler
[18:43] Joan Vhargon: agree Allen
[18:43] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:43] Reiko Soyinka: because so many avatars look alike...
[18:43] Svetlana Pleides: true..
[18:43] Reiko Soyinka: look at all the barbie dolls in the shops.
[18:44] Anastasia Horngold: It could be made more up front, in RP, to turn off display of yours and others' names and group tags.
[18:44] Cursa Charisma: So the problem is not that there are tags, but that they are misused
[18:45] Reiko Soyinka: Not gonna solve that one.
[18:45] Mikie Rhiadra: or that some people insist they ahve the ability to know more, in the case fo the npcs i was invovled with,a nd it happened to more than one of us, we repeatedtly told the same people OOC that we were jsut npcs and were different evry time we showed up, they still pretended they ahd a persona connection to the characters
[18:45] Allen Kerensky: and yes it would be better for people to RP introductions - but... it never seems to happen
[18:46] Cursa Charisma: Mikie, how did you deal with that?
[18:46] Svetlana Pleides: I do all the time.
[18:46] Allen Kerensky: alts would solve mikie's problems i think
[18:46] Allen Kerensky: CloakedFigure Lastname
[18:46] Cursa Charisma: But having to make a new one every time?
[18:46] Allen Kerensky: and share the password with a small group of people like The Unknown Comic
[18:46] Svetlana Pleides: as long as you dress as cloaked figure..
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: That's a TOS violation, Allen
[18:47] Mikie Rhiadra: this was an alt I used specifically for an npc
[18:47] Allen Kerensky: so is so many other things
[18:47] Allen Kerensky: ah, it was already an alt
[18:47] Allen Kerensky: posting the transcript of this meeting is a ToS violation
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: But "NPC LastName" would work, wouldn't it?
[18:47] Cursa Charisma: No, Allen, it is not
[18:47] Svetlana Pleides: or else it will be "Hey remember that guy in the Hawaiian shirt and flip flops... what was his name?"
[18:47] Allen Kerensky: depends on the Linden you ask
[18:48] Allen Kerensky: regardless, yes I get your point
[18:48] Svetlana Pleides: you can become famous if youa re nto careful.
[18:48] Cursa Charisma: The policy on their site is that this chat is public performance
[18:48] Reiko Soyinka: The ToS specifically states "...in IMs.."
[18:49] Cursa Charisma: And I don't dispute that you can ask a Linden and get anything back
[18:49] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:50] Joan Vhargon: Its only illegal if you abuse it and you get reported.
[18:50] Cursa Charisma: I hope nobody is suddenly horrified at the realization that we keep transcripts here and put them on a blog
[18:50] Joan Vhargon: That's true everywhere.
[18:50] Reiko Soyinka giggles
[18:50] Svetlana Pleides: oh my..
[18:51] Reiko Soyinka: <---does not giggle IRL, but has had the urge to giggle IRL recently...due to /giggle
[18:51] Cursa Charisma: Mikie, I asked a while back there how you dealt with these people inventing cross-character relationships with your spear-carrier avatar?
[18:51] Mikie Rhiadra: we foudn the only way to reallyhandle it was ignore them if they adressed us by name, though it often didn't deter them
[18:51] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:51] Allen Kerensky: this also relates to the need for a widely agreed Red Shirt faction for your setting
[18:52] Cursa Charisma: Did you IM them?
[18:52] Allen Kerensky: if you are sandpeople, you're fodder, etc
[18:52] Anastasia Horngold: "Sir, I believe you are mistaking me for someone else."
[18:52] Mikie Rhiadra: there were 4-5 of us that were the OPFOR for the sim, we played anythign they needed us to to shoot at
[18:52] Cursa Charisma: Yes, you had a Redshirt faction
[18:53] Mikie Rhiadra: there were rarely ever any interactions verbally, except for one person who woudln not be deterred from knwoing each of us personally
[18:53] Allen Kerensky: mute mute mute mute
[18:53] Mikie Rhiadra: when its another gm doing it?
[18:53] Cursa Charisma: Ah!
[18:53] Reiko Soyinka: Poor person...needing so much.
[18:53] Allen Kerensky: sure why not
[18:53] Allen Kerensky: all they can do is ban you - if you don't like the table, why play the game at it?
[18:53] Allen Kerensky: that's why I left SR actually
[18:53] Mikie Rhiadra: we were all gms in the same sim
[18:54] Allen Kerensky: got to not like the table
[18:54] Mikie Rhiadra: and it wound up being the reason i left where i was to start my own sim
[18:54] Allen Kerensky: yep, the Linux way - don't like it, fork, and do better
[18:54] Allen Kerensky looks at Joan
[18:55] Cursa Charisma: So this raises the distinction between game-mastering of rp and admin of sims
[18:55] Joan Vhargon: Avoids Allen's gaze
[18:55] Allen Kerensky: at the table, GMs *are* the redshirt faction
[18:56] Allen Kerensky: anytime a GM becomes a PC, the game is
[18:56] Reiko Soyinka: hehehehe...and admins are always freeee to take the broadsides.
[18:56] Allen Kerensky: Everyone stay calm....
[18:56] Allen Kerensky: Because we're all DOOOMED!!
[18:56] Anastasia Horngold hands Allen a Prozac.
[18:56] Allen Kerensky: its never good for GMs to get mixed up in being players too, in the same persona
[18:56] Mikie Rhiadra: which is why we al ahd alts to be the redshirts
[18:56] Allen Kerensky: Joan has an interesting take on it, which I am waiting to see play out
[18:57] Joan Vhargon: You get draggen into it no matter how you try.
[18:57] Allen Kerensky: nod Mikie
[18:57] Anastasia Horngold listens to Joan
[18:57] Joan Vhargon: That's why I chose the Magistrate's Role.
[18:57] Joan Vhargon: the Magistrate applies the rules. that's her role.
[18:58] Joan Vhargon: Its different than a King or dictator.
[18:58] Allen Kerensky: and sim admins as civil servants is a good take on things in general
[18:58] Allen Kerensky: I wish Lindens would do that for SL in general
[18:59] Cursa Charisma: What, you mean have Linden avs all over the place in the guise of petty officials?
[18:59] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:59] Allen Kerensky: um, no we have that already - i meant lindens as civil servants
[19:00] Joan Vhargon: sees double.
[19:00] Reiko Soyinka: I've met a linden av...he was a giant pink bunny fuzzy.
[19:00] Cursa Charisma has never seen a Linden avatar
[19:00] Allen Kerensky: so what was the question again and whose turn was it?
[19:00] Cursa Charisma: Actually, it's now 7pm SLT
[19:01] Cursa Charisma: We started 3 hours ago
[19:01] Allen Kerensky: table the rest for part 3?
[19:01] Cursa Charisma: Yes, let's do that
[19:01] Svetlana Pleides: yeah..
(transcript ends)

March 28, 2010 Topic "What does Roleplay mean to you?" Part 2

Following the success of the previous talk, and the length at which the first few questions handed out by Anastasia were discussed, this talk has been turned into a two-parter.

For your preparation, here is the list of questions that will be discussed on March 28th.

_____________________________________

Do you find it satisfying to interact as another character than yourself?

Do you feel that you connect with people on a personal level, while playing another character?
(And is this important to you?)

Does your character express parts of yourself that don't get play in RL?

What do you get out of RP?

What do you like or dislike about it?

And,

Do you think it means something different to you than to other people?

March 21, 2010 Nexus Talk "What Does Role Play Mean to You?"

On Sunday, March 21, 2010, Anastasia Horngold gave a talk at the Role Play Nexus on the topic, "What Does Role Play Mean to You?", and provided a list of questions for consideration in a group discussion.

Attending were:
Allen Kerensky
Cursa Charisma
DylanFox Petrov
Hipster Triangle
Joan Vhargon
Medea Warwillow
Reiko Soyinka
Thaiis Thei
Vooper Werribee

The group considered approximately half of the questions, so it was agreed that the discussion would continue on March 28.

(transcript begins)
[16:05] Anastasia Horngold: Greetings to all.
[16:05] Anastasia Horngold: I'm Anastasia Horngold.
[16:05] Hipster Triangle: nods
[16:05] Anastasia Horngold: I have been living in the Firefly 'Verse for a while now, and thinking about Role-Playing a lot.
[16:06] Anastasia Horngold: This will not be a long speech. I have a few comments, and a few questions, which I will mention and then throw open to discussion.
[16:06] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:06] Anastasia Horngold: I've been thinking about what this kind of role-playing is, that we do here in SL.
[16:06] Anastasia Horngold: Here's a definition from the source of all wisdom, Wikipedia:
[16:06] Anastasia Horngold: A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, adopting motives, attitudes, and postures. Their actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games.
[16:07] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:07] Anastasia Horngold: Generally speaking, we agree more or less on the world we're living in, such as the Firefly 'Verse, or Battlestar, and so on.
[16:07] Joan Vhargon: rolls eyes on the word "rules"
[16:08] Anastasia Horngold: Joan, I think that's one of the things I'll touch on in a moment.
[16:08] Hipster Triangle: hello Joan
[16:08] Anastasia Horngold: We have an idea of the kinds of people that live in that world, and we choose one to portray.
[16:08] Anastasia Horngold: Sometimes a group of us will collaborate on a preset storyline, and put that into play.
[16:08] Anastasia Horngold: Sometimes we just carry on individually, either with an internal story goal, or simply interacting with the world or others as time passes, without any particular purpose.
[16:09] Anastasia Horngold: In our RP, we don't have a strict "gamemaster," at least in the settings I'm familiar with. Sometimes a sim owner will intervene if behavior is unacceptable.
[16:09] Anastasia Horngold: But generally speaking, we provide our own internal policing on how to behave or what the consequences should be.
[16:09] Anastasia Horngold: This involves operating on two mental levels simultaneously: Our "real" self, monitoring the action, making decisions on that level, and our "character" self, operating within the RP framework, reacting per our character's situation and background.
[16:10] Anastasia Horngold: This is a complicated mental activity!
[16:10] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:10] Anastasia Horngold: It's very similar to improvisational theater, where actors are given a brief scenario to play out: either a goal, or just a beginning point.
[16:10] Anastasia Horngold: But it is also different, because our character has an preestablished agenda, or personal goals, to maintain throughout the RP and afterward.
[16:10] Reiko Soyinka: ?
[16:10] Anastasia Horngold: Yes, Reiko?
[16:11] Reiko Soyinka: comment later.
[16:11] Anastasia Horngold: kk
[16:11] Reiko Soyinka: sorry.
[16:11] Cursa Charisma nods politely to Vooper
[16:11] Anastasia Horngold: Here are some questions. I'm going to read through these, then give them to you in a notecard, so we can refer to them through the discussion:
[16:11] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:11] Joan Vhargon: Hi Vooper. Looking good as always.
[16:11] Anastasia Horngold: How much do you consciously think about your character during active RP?
(Is your character completely automatic ("internalized"), or do you have to consciously work out what to do moment by moment?)
[16:11] Anastasia Horngold: Do you usually participate in preset scenarios or not?
(What kinds of groups do you work the scenarios out in? How many people?)
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: Do you have any trouble coming up with RP scenarios, and why?
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: Do you find it satisfying to interact as another character than yourself?
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: Do you feel that you connect with people on a personal level, while playing another character?
(And is this important to you?)
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: Does your character express parts of yourself that don't get play in RL?
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: What do you get out of RP?
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: What do you like or dislike about it?
[16:12] Anastasia Horngold: And,

Do you think it means something different to you than to other people?
[16:13] Reiko Soyinka: Whew, good questions.
[16:13] Anastasia Horngold: I'm going to turn the chair back to Cursa to moderate, and hand out these notes.
[16:13] Hipster Triangle: an a lot a them,smiles
[16:13] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Anastasia
[16:13] Medea Warwillow applauds
[16:13] Joan Vhargon: And a lot of questionsto digest at once
[16:13] Cursa Charisma applauds
[16:13] Cursa Charisma: Yes, let's all get the notecards and then go around one by one on each question
[16:13] Anastasia Horngold gave you RP Questions.
[16:14] Anastasia Horngold: Did I miss anyone/
[16:14] Anastasia Horngold: ?
[16:14] Joan Vhargon: no
[16:14] Cursa Charisma: I got one
[16:14] Reiko Soyinka: ditto
[16:14] Medea Warwillow: Also got one.
[16:15] Cursa Charisma: OK, so let's look at the first question, and go around the circle, starting with Medea
[16:15] Cursa Charisma: How much do you consciously think about your character during active RP?
(Is your character completely automatic ("internalized"), or do you have to consciously work out what to do moment by moment?)
[16:15] Medea Warwillow: Okay.
[16:16] Medea Warwillow: During active RP, I am thinking about my character all of the time, mostly because the characters I play are not reflective of how I am in RL.
[16:16] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:16] Anastasia Horngold nods
[16:16] Medea Warwillow: But, it requires less thought the more the character is played.
[16:17] Anastasia Horngold: Makes sense
[16:17] Medea Warwillow: Because I can refer to my past IC actions to help dictate future actions.
[16:17] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:17] Medea Warwillow: Finished...
[16:17] Cursa Charisma: OK, Vooper?
[16:18] Vooper Werribee: I don't have to think too hard about my character responses
[16:18] Reiko Soyinka: I internalize most of the characters fairly rapidly
[16:18] Vooper Werribee: Mostly because the chatacter I play is pretty one-dimensional
[16:18] Vooper Werribee: and quie stupid! :)
[16:18] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:18] Medea Warwillow: hehehe
[16:18] Anastasia Horngold: lol
[16:18] Cursa Charisma: That's an interesting point, Vooper
[16:18] Cursa Charisma: Choosing a character that is easy for you to play
[16:19] Anastasia Horngold: Complexity would make it more ... complex!
[16:20] Vooper Werribee: well, the interaction between charcters can already be very complex - add to that a complex RP background full of complicated persoanlities and it's a bit over the top sometimes
[16:20] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:20] Cursa Charisma: But in the sense of your character's choices flowing naturally...?
[16:20] Joan Vhargon: nods.
[16:20] Anastasia Horngold: Plus the difficulty in reading people in SL--complexity is hard to tell from inconsistency
[16:20] Cursa Charisma grins
[16:21] Reiko Soyinka: /nod
[16:21] Vooper Werribee: Yes - he's a bigot with only one guiding goal - avoid as much work as possible while keeping the spice flowing
[16:21] Anastasia Horngold: I like what you just asked, Cursa, about choices flowing naturally
[16:21] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:21] Vooper Werribee: it's pretty wasy to respond to most situations without thinking too hard
[16:21] Cursa Charisma: Vooper's character has a fundamental set of clear motivations
[16:22] Cursa Charisma: Alright, Reiko, your turn
[16:22] Reiko Soyinka: I internalize most of my characters fairly rapidly...then sit back and see what they do or say...which frequently surprise me
[16:22] Reiko Soyinka: done
[16:22] Cursa Charisma: Thank you. Hipster?
[16:23] Hipster Triangle: oh god,smiles
[16:23] Hipster Triangle: Honestley
[16:23] Hipster Triangle: I Improvise,for whatever the situation,or setting dectates
[16:23] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:24] Hipster Triangle: a spur a the moment,ya might say
[16:24] Cursa Charisma: OK
[16:24] Allen Kerensky: "internalize"
[16:24] Anastasia Horngold nods
[16:24] Hipster Triangle: an then sometimes,i get very involved
[16:24] Allen Kerensky: yep sounds like internalization to me
[16:24] Hipster Triangle: but i try to be the real me
[16:25] Hipster Triangle: done
[16:25] Reiko Soyinka: why?
[16:25] Cursa Charisma: Thank you
[16:25] Anastasia Horngold: So it's more "you" in the situation than a "character"?
[16:25] Hipster Triangle: no,not at all
[16:25] Hipster Triangle: depends on the situation,or person,that i feel im interactin with
[16:25] Anastasia Horngold: nod
[16:26] Hipster Triangle: are they for real,or jerkin me around
[16:26] Anastasia Horngold: i see
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: That's an important caveat here - that we flow from one frame of reference to another, and one style of interaction to another
[16:26] Hipster Triangle: an done,with this question,smiles
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: OK
[16:26] Anastasia Horngold: yes
[16:26] Cursa Charisma: Anastasia, anything more you'd like to add on this from your own perspective?
[16:27] Anastasia Horngold: sure
[16:28] Anastasia Horngold: I've felt quite paralyzed at times, trying to do RP. But I have found that some alts are easier than others
[16:28] Joan Vhargon: Are we still going around?
[16:28] Anastasia Horngold: lag
[16:28] Cursa Charisma: You mean characters, or avatars?
[16:29] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Joan, after Anastasia comes Allen, then you
[16:29] Hipster Triangle: Joan didnt get her chance
[16:29] Cursa Charisma: She will
[16:29] Joan Vhargon: ok
[16:29] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:29] Hipster Triangle: sorry
[16:29] Cursa Charisma: No problem
[16:31] Anastasia Horngold: My "bad guy" alt is much is much more spontaneous than Anastasia
[16:31] Anastasia Horngold: Major chat lag
[16:31] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:31] Hipster Triangle: np
[16:31] Anastasia Horngold: done with this question
[16:31] Cursa Charisma: OK, Allen?
[16:31] Joan Vhargon: That's why I was checking
[16:32] Allen Kerensky: Since I have ADD and Asperger's Syndrome, I have to consciously work out everything moment by moment in SL
[16:32] Anastasia Horngold: Wow, interesting
[16:32] Hipster Triangle: nods
[16:32] Allen Kerensky: and the fluid nature of who shows up, what character they bring, what the plot is that day all complicates
[16:32] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:33] Allen Kerensky: it makes SL RP a tough exercise, especially without the benefit of across-the-table analysis of each player that you can do in RL
[16:33] Anastasia Horngold: You mean body language things?
[16:33] Allen Kerensky: so, I have to compensate for the mind blindness using tools like elaborate character creators, and a roleplay "karma" mechanic adapted from tabletop games
[16:34] Allen Kerensky: yes, and tone of voices, etc
[16:34] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:34] Anastasia Horngold nods
[16:34] Allen Kerensky: and mostly pick carefully which RP sessions to actually engage in
[16:34] Cursa Charisma: Yes, visual and voice cues are usually not consciously considered, but are crucial
[16:34] Hipster Triangle: RP,and RLshould be seperate
[16:34] Allen Kerensky: because its so easy to get lost and make thigns suck for other players
[16:34] Medea Warwillow: Interesting point. Allen
[16:35] Joan Vhargon: I was going to same the same thing.
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: if there is a clear background, clear characters with clear motivations, and clear goals to the session, its easier than "throw down improv"
[16:35] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: i.e. lack of a GM makes it harder, much harder
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: lack of mechanics in most sims makes it harder to fit in also
[16:35] Allen Kerensky: and I am done with this question
[16:35] Cursa Charisma: Very important - there is not one "right" style of role play
[16:36] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Allen
[16:36] Anastasia Horngold: as in the "director" role the GM plays? or arbiter?
[16:36] Allen Kerensky: and the motivational goals the GM sets up and facilitates
[16:36] Hipster Triangle: nods,and agress
[16:36] Allen Kerensky: through NPCs and the like
[16:36] Anastasia Horngold: oh, goals, yes
[16:36] Cursa Charisma: As Allen says, clearly prepared and laid out play is more comfortable for him
[16:36] Cursa Charisma: Whereas for others, more freeform "throw down improv" is more enjoyable
[16:36] Allen Kerensky: its all uncomfortable, social interaction is not that easy
[16:37] Allen Kerensky whispers: but, having a sense of the "map
[16:37] Cursa Charisma: Vive la difference, n'est ce pas?
[16:37] Allen Kerensky: the "map" or story terrain does help focus on just being the character
[16:37] Cursa Charisma: ne c'est pas*
[16:37] Anastasia Horngold: Gives some definition, limits
[16:37] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:37] Allen Kerensky: helps set expectations as well
[16:37] Allen Kerensky: everyone diving in a dungen knows what to expect in D&D
[16:37] Anastasia Horngold: Having fewer choices can be helpful
[16:38] Allen Kerensky: sorry, done =D
[16:38] Allen laughs.
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: Well, a good game, Sid Meier tells us, is a series of interesting choices. What is interesting is an individual matter
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: OK, Joan, you've been patient
[16:38] Anastasia Horngold chuckles
[16:38] Cursa Charisma: You're on!
[16:38] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[16:39] Joan Vhargon: I try to get immersed in my character. Try to enter Joan al Jofar's head and put myself in her shoes and sense her frustration, her danger. I often catch myself saying "I" when I mean my character. That is a good thing and a bad thing. It's also where much of the Drama stems from in RP. People not being able to separate the two. So I strive for it but fear it at the same time.
[16:39] Joan Vhargon: Personally often get frustrated in getting caught up in some of the mechanics. Most communcation is non verbal or is implied in tone. I miss that just like Allen does. What is being said that I missed, and the fact that the conversation has taken two turns since I started typing. etc, etc. Its hard to get immersed while flustered. **
[16:40] Cursa Charisma: This is a major challenge of freeform interaction - typing time
[16:40] Joan Vhargon: Its a big problem for me.
[16:40] Medea Warwillow: Agreed, and is part of the problem for those who do not have the patience to wait for paragraphs.
[16:40] Joan Vhargon: I don't touch type well. When I do everuyone knows it.
[16:40] Cursa Charisma: Traditional tabletop role playing games of course have regulated turns and such
[16:41] Anastasia Horngold: Pickup up the mouse, putting it down, dropping it, corecting typos (or not)...
[16:41] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:41] Joan Vhargon: yup
[16:41] Anastasia Horngold: Heck, if there WERE facial expressions we wouldn't have time to read them!
[16:42] Medea Warwillow: And try watching more than one avatar at a time...
[16:42] Reiko Soyinka: I try to put in body movement...and try to keep out "thinking"...
[16:42] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, I think we've identified quite a few important things to consider on this question. Shall we move on to the next one?
[16:42] Anastasia Horngold: When you can't even really focus in on faces from more than a few feet away!
[16:42] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:43] Joan Vhargon: We do it in real life all the time. We "should" be ablet to do it here. That's where the frustration comes.
[16:43] Joan Vhargon: Expectations.....
[16:43] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:43] Medea Warwillow: Next question?
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: and substituting with more descriptive text tends to torque a few people off
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: Do you usually participate in preset RP scenarios or not?
(What kinds of groups do you work the scenarios out in? How many people?)
[16:43] Allen Kerensky: yes next
[16:43] Cursa Charisma: Medea?
[16:43] Medea Warwillow: Most of the roleplay scenarios I participate in are fairly planned out. This is referring to the overall scheme, not textual details. Much of the roleplay outside of that is simple interaction, likely not directed towards a certain goal or outcome, such a conversation in a bar.
[16:44] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:44] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Thaiis
[16:44] Anastasia Horngold: Hello
[16:44] Hipster Triangle: hey there
[16:45] Medea Warwillow: I enjoy both. I enjoy the intrigue of not know which direction a conversation might head, and also enjoy working my way to a destined roleplay goal.
[16:45] Thaiis Thei: greetings
[16:45] Thaiis Thei accepted your inventory offer.
[16:45] Anastasia Horngold: Medea, in the planned RP scenarios, do they proceed at anything like "real life" pace & timing?
[16:45] Reiko Soyinka: hehehehehe
[16:46] Medea Warwillow: Hmm.
[16:46] Medea Warwillow: That depends on the scenario. SOmetime I am just trying to keep it slow enough for everyone to be able to read (if the roleplay involves a script)....
[16:47] Medea Warwillow: But there have also been scenarios that have been SIGNIFICANTLY speeded up...because to do them at a Real life pace would be ecruciating.
[16:47] Medea Warwillow: *excruciating.
[16:47] Anastasia Horngold: Oh, you have done actually scripted ones?
[16:47] Reiko Soyinka: /nod
[16:48] Medea Warwillow: Case in point, an initiation that involved meditation on the part of the initiates.....what would have been several days in RL we went through in several minutes.
[16:48] Anastasia Horngold chuckles.
[16:48] Joan Vhargon: nods
[16:48] Reiko Soyinka: /nod
[16:48] Medea Warwillow: Can you imagine having to do an activity like that for several days in SL? That also seems to be the case with Avatar pregnancies.
[16:48] Medea Warwillow: 9months in a few weeks.
[16:49] Reiko Soyinka: hehehehehehe
[16:49] Anastasia Horngold: Yes, I've noticed that! Youth today have no patience. ;)
[16:49] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:49] Medea Warwillow grins
[16:49] Reiko Soyinka: otherwise, there would be more murders...
[16:49] Reiko Soyinka: talking tummies.
[16:49] Medea Warwillow: LOL!
[16:50] Cursa Charisma: OK, we ready for Vooper?
[16:50] Medea Warwillow: Yes.
[16:50] Vooper Werribee: I rarely participate in planned RP scenarios these days - although the ones I have participated in have been some of the est expereinces in SL - and they hae usually been 'gamesmastered' ie one person is 'directing' the experience and a clear goal
[16:50] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:51] Cursa Charisma: So a "scenario handler" rather than a sim administrator
[16:51] Vooper Werribee: yes - someone verym much taking the role of the 'Dungeonmaster' in tabletop RP
[16:52] Anastasia Horngold: Did that involve ongoing prompts? Or just setup ahead of time?
[16:52] Cursa Charisma: But in a broad sense - all the RP in a given group - or for the specific scenario?
[16:52] Vooper Werribee: II wasn't the peson being the Dungeon master - so difficult to tell
[16:52] Allen Kerensky: both
[16:52] Vooper Werribee: but there was a lot of scripted stuff i nthe scenario - so a lot of set up before play
[16:52] Vooper Werribee: but also players being players we did several unexpected things
[16:52] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:53] Allen Kerensky: the person doing the setup tends to do some railroading too to keep people in bounds of the designed scenario
[16:53] Anastasia Horngold raises her eyebrows.
[16:53] Vooper Werribee: yes, exactly Allen
[16:53] Allen Kerensky: the outcomes of the actions are left to the players, but there is some prompting to get them to the decision points, if needed
[16:53] Cursa Charisma: So quite close indeed to traditional offline tabletop RPG
[16:53] Anastasia Horngold: ah
[16:54] Vooper Werribee: yes, that's right Cursa
[16:54] Cursa Charisma: Understood
[16:54] Cursa Charisma: Alright, Reiko?
[16:54] Reiko Soyinka: I've participated in scripted, directed and impromptu...and I have to say that the impromptu, with a group of experienced and good roleplayers, whom you have been playing with....
[16:54] Reiko Soyinka: has been the most fantastic experience...
[16:54] Thaiis Thei: I agree
[16:55] Joan Vhargon: nods
[16:55] Reiko Soyinka: I've even been unexpectedly but deliberately killed...
[16:55] Reiko Soyinka: in such a situation...
[16:55] Anastasia Horngold: Ooh
[16:55] Cursa Charisma: So, would you say that the type of structured play Vooper and Allen are talking about is a prerequisite to the more freeform type?
[16:56] Reiko Soyinka: I think that the more forms of roleplay you experience...the better able you are to "read" the other people...and relax into the character.
[16:56] Vooper Werribee: Actually I think they are two different styles of play - almost at extremes of a scale
[16:57] Reiko Soyinka: They are, Vooper...
[16:57] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:57] Reiko Soyinka: but you can't do this impromptu...
[16:57] Thaiis Thei: I feel that when there is too much planning it is boring
[16:57] Reiko Soyinka: without first experiencing the other...
[16:57] Anastasia Horngold: nod
[16:58] Vooper Werribee: Sort of like a highly scripted situational comedy verses an improvised comedy show
[16:58] Vooper Werribee: to give a comparison
[16:58] Cursa Charisma: I think we've identified an important question here
[16:58] Anastasia Horngold: High wire vs. trampoline
[16:58] Anastasia Horngold: oh yes, cursa?
[16:58] Cursa Charisma: The more improvisational style of role play relies on a body of shared tacit knowledge and assumptions
[16:59] Reiko Soyinka: Yes, it does.
[16:59] Anastasia Horngold: ! yes
[16:59] Allen Kerensky: and a longer-term stable group
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: How is this body established?
[16:59] Anastasia Horngold: And familiarity between the players
[16:59] Anastasia Horngold: What allen said.
[16:59] Thaiis Thei: that is tres important
[16:59] Medea Warwillow: Agreed.
[16:59] Thaiis Thei: especially if you have people form many cultures
[16:59] Cursa Charisma nods
[16:59] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, thank you, Reiko
[17:00] Reiko Soyinka: You are welcome.
[17:00] Cursa Charisma: Hipster?
[17:00] Hipster Triangle: ok
[17:00] Anastasia Horngold: You have to know that everyone is buying into the same assumptions or internalized rules.
[17:00] Hipster Triangle: I have done both
[17:00] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:00] Hipster Triangle: the preplanned RP,lets everyone know there roles,and parts
[17:01] Allen Kerensky: and the goals to RP towards
[17:01] Hipster Triangle: i have had some very enjoyable moments playin the prepllaned stuff
[17:02] Hipster Triangle: altho,then there are situtations,where you have a role,and others have another role,and you build on that
[17:02] Cursa Charisma: "Plot-driven" vs. "character-driven"
[17:02] Medea Warwillow: If I could interject for a moment...preplanned roleplay, at least scenarios, can be a vital part of creating larger scenarios, and involving players not inclined to start one themselves.
[17:02] Hipster Triangle: yes
[17:03] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:03] Hipster Triangle: RP for me
[17:03] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:04] Hipster Triangle: is becoming eminesed in someone or something,you wish to be
[17:04] Hipster Triangle: an i cant spell,smiles
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: That doesn't stand out around here
[17:05] Vooper Werribee: Yes, unless you have a background in improvisational theater, improve, character-driven RP requires a bit of learning and expereince wereas the plot-driven scenario is more akin to reading a novel and most people can 'jump in'
[17:05] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:05] Cursa Charisma: Alright, Anastasia?
[17:05] Hipster Triangle: yeah,Jump in here
[17:06] Anastasia Horngold: I did some RL acting a very long time ago, and had experiences where the character took over and really came to life--took over situations, manipulated people, really made things happen.
[17:06] Hipster Triangle: Please,
[17:06] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:06] Anastasia Horngold: In SL, so far, it's been mixed. The impromptu activities have not been very interesting, but I think most people didn't have very strongly developed characters. Me included.
[17:06] Medea Warwillow: Something like Method acting, Anastasia?
[17:06] Anastasia Horngold: yes perhaps
[17:06] Anastasia Horngold: The preplanned ones have been more dynamic, but can also be confused.
[17:06] Anastasia Horngold: There was one situation where an item was stolen, and someone was arrested for it, and I couldn't tell whether he was playing a character who was upset about being arrested, or he was just upset about being arrested!
[17:07] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:07] Anastasia Horngold: RL/SL bleed-through confusion.
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: IC or OOC
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: Was there IM chat to verify?
[17:07] Anastasia Horngold: Yes, and that happens to me all the time--not being able to tell who's doing which.
[17:07] Anastasia Horngold: I'm not sure!
[17:07] Reiko Soyinka: that's because they don't know, either.
[17:07] Anastasia Horngold: I couldn't keep up.
[17:07] Cursa Charisma: OK, so you didn't IM anyone to ask?
[17:08] Anastasia Horngold: No,, I was too busy trying not to shoot anyone.
[17:08] Vooper Werribee: There's really no harm in asking in IM if someone is really upset or just playing that part
[17:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:08] Hipster Triangle: RP,should be enjoyable,and fun,for everyone,and that should be made clear,from the start,that,its Roleplay
[17:08] Cursa Charisma: Right, Vooper, but note the "heat of the moment" factor
[17:08] Vooper Werribee: in fact I think that is recommended procedure
[17:08] Cursa Charisma: Everyone knows what IM is, but when the bullets are flying...
[17:08] Anastasia Horngold: yes, I was panicked and couldn't figure out what to do.
[17:08] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:08] Cursa Charisma: That comes with the joys of immersion
[17:09] Anastasia Horngold: I'm done
[17:09] Cursa Charisma: Great
[17:09] Cursa Charisma: (chat lagg)
[17:09] Cursa Charisma: OK, Allen, to you
[17:10] Allen Kerensky: i'll keep it simple... as you can guess from my earlier remark, I prefer a preset/managed/plotted/defined RP over an impromptu or freeform style. I've participated in both and impromptu seems like pyjama chat with no goal.
[17:10] Allen Kerensky: done
[17:10] Cursa Charisma: OK, thanks
[17:10] Cursa Charisma: Joan?
[17:10] Anastasia Horngold: pyjama chat! haha
[17:11] Reiko Soyinka: pyjama chat?
[17:11] Joan Vhargon: I have an annoying habbit of reframing the question to suit my needs.
[17:11] Joan Vhargon: I usually participate an a loosely structured RP. I try to organize and enjoy the ones that are more structured.
[17:11] Cursa Charisma: Go for it, Joan
[17:11] Joan Vhargon: Most of my favorite subjects to converse about are history. Most of it is personal history, interpersonal history and then regional and global history. Think about your last enjoyable conversation with your RL friends or family. Most of what I talk about can be described as interpreting that "history".
[17:11] Joan Vhargon: That's what a good RP also does, it revolves around a common history. That's why we have different RP groups, FireFly, Star Trek, SWRPG, Dune, these are all histories. So you need a sense of history to do that. That's what structure can provide. It gives a mini history, but is also works in unstructured RP as well as long as the participants are in the same "Historical Place," What happened a year ago, a month ago, a day ago, a moment ago.
[17:12] Joan Vhargon: **
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: Disclaimer: Joan and I are not alts of one another
[17:12] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:12] Anastasia Horngold: lol
[17:12] Hipster Triangle: laughs
[17:12] Joan Vhargon: Disclaimer: Cursa and I are not alts of one another
[17:12] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:12] Medea Warwillow: hahahahaha
[17:12] Cursa Charisma: OK, Thaiis, please join in
[17:13] Thaiis Thei: anythign in particular?
[17:13] Cursa Charisma: The current question
[17:13] Cursa Charisma: Do you usually participate in preset RP scenarios or not?
(What kinds of groups do you work the scenarios out in? How many people?)
[17:13] Thaiis Thei: well
[17:14] Joan Vhargon: Wait?
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: somethings I do lend themselves to prepration
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: I do a lot of religious stuff and rituals need planning and practice
[17:14] Joan Vhargon: No comments on history?
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: Oh I agree that a shared history can be a very imprtant shaper of a scenario
[17:14] Thaiis Thei: especially for new people
[17:15] Joan Vhargon: I'm speaking to the whole group.
[17:15] Reiko Soyinka: I think you said it very well...and succinctly...
[17:15] Joan Vhargon: Sorry Thaiis Thei:
[17:15] Community: Flawed Conduit for Fulfillment: Anastasia Horngold, here is the transcript of this Nexus talk
[17:15] Joan Vhargon: Ok.
[17:16] Joan Vhargon: Please continu Thaiis Thei
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: ok
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: so presents are important for things that have a definate shape
[17:16] Thaiis Thei: presets
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: and those things can be very engaging
[17:17] Medea Warwillow: I agree.
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: but generally I prefer more free flow rping
[17:17] Thaiis Thei: if everyone has a good grasp of thier charachter
[17:18] Thaiis Thei: then good rp can result
[17:18] Thaiis Thei: and the scenario
[17:18] Living in a bunker: Cursa Charisma, online RP can become an obsession - keeping perspective is important
[17:18] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, Brooke
[17:18] Brooke Rhea: Thanks.
[17:18] Joan Vhargon: Uhhh, Brooke
[17:18] Reiko Soyinka: hehehehe
[17:19] Joan Vhargon: I like you and all, but....
[17:19] Cursa Charisma laughs
[17:19] Reiko Soyinka watches Joan slowly sink under Brooke's weight.
[17:19] Anastasia Horngold: Aw, Joan, she looks so comfortable.
[17:19] Brooke Rhea: ((lol sorry!!))
[17:19] Joan Vhargon: lol
[17:20] Brooke Rhea: ((When I came in didn't have anyone rezzed htere))
[17:20] Medea Warwillow grins
[17:20] Bletaverse Server: Image received. Visit http://bletaverse.com/Cursa%20Charisma to see your post.
[17:21] Anastasia Horngold: Where were we? Was Thais finished?
[17:21] Brooke Rhea accepted your inventory offer.
[17:21] Thaiis Thei: Many people think so...
[17:21] Cursa Charisma: OK, Thaiis, do you have anything more on this question?
[17:21] Anastasia Horngold: haha
[17:22] Thaiis Thei: nope
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Alright, let's go to the next question
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: We'll start with Medea as usual, and that will let Brooke get into it before having to answer
[17:22] Cursa Charisma: Do you have any trouble coming up with RP scenarios, and why?
[17:23] Medea Warwillow: Umm, I've been typing for a while, so my apologies on whatever length this response may be.
[17:23] Medea Warwillow: The only time I have trouble coming up with RP scenarios is when I find myself in an unfamiliar, or canonical setting. For instance, I am not overly familiar with the FIrefly universe, which is why I purposefully took a role which enables me to follow the lead of my employer. If I can manage to do proper research into the culture of the particular place, coming up with roleplay is usually a breeze. What hinders me at times is not wanting to overstep boundaries. Some do overstep, and then it is up to the owner of hte toes to either steer the rp back on course, go with it, or become mightily offended.
[17:23] Thaiis Thei orders Medea to watch FF on repeat for a week
[17:23] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:24] Medea Warwillow: hehehe
[17:24] Medea Warwillow: Will do my best Thaiis.
[17:24] Brooke Rhea: hulu.com ;-)
[17:24] Cursa Charisma: There is no "best", only do - or get done
[17:24] Anastasia Horngold: Brain implant.
[17:24] Medea Warwillow: Dont have access to Hulu outside of the US.
[17:24] Thaiis Thei: there is no try. Only do, or do not.
[17:24] Thaiis Thei: wtf Hule?
[17:24] Medea Warwillow: I will take Yoda's words to heart.
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: Rather than Cursa's
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:25] Medea Warwillow: ...hehe...
[17:25] Cursa Charisma: OK, on to Vooper?
[17:25] Medea Warwillow: Yes.
[17:26] Vooper Werribee: I don't have the time t ocreate RP scenarios in SL at the moment - however, I used to pay a tabletop RP game called Traveller which almost encouraged the gamesmaster to be able to come up with RP scenario on the fly
[17:26] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:26] Thaiis Thei: yes if there isnt a well developed scenario then a great GM is a must
[17:26] Vooper Werribee: so I like to think I could pretty much develope a scenario pretty easily if need be
[17:27] Vooper Werribee: I'd use the various tools and tricks that I used for GMing Traveller
[17:27] Anastasia Horngold: I'd be interested to learn more about those.
[17:28] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:28] Vooper Werribee: let me mention a few
[17:29] Vooper Werribee: 1) It's a big universe in Traveller and almost anything you can imagine exista somewhere - so =just adapt a plot from a TV show you saw last night, or the last book you read
[17:29] Anastasia Horngold nods
[17:30] Vooper Werribee: 2) They had books of little mini adventures available - if you were at a loss as a GM you just flipped to a page skimmed it - if you though it could fit well to the current situation use it - if not flip to anothe rpage and repeat
[17:30] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:30] Anastasia Horngold: Add vermouth, stir, and serve.
[17:30] Cursa Charisma: Some prefer shaken, not stirred
[17:30] Cursa Charisma winks
[17:30] Cursa Charisma: Excellent, Vooper
[17:30] Vooper Werribee: ah - if only I knew the delights of a good Martini at the time :)
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: Reiko?
[17:31] Reiko Soyinka: I'm more a facilitator than a developer. I cannot usually come up with plots but I can fit almost any character into any type of semi-compatable roleplay...with the exception of Warhammer 40K
[17:31] Reiko Soyinka: Also, I think I'm rather limited by human behavior in real life and the idea that you can't kill, in SL.
[17:31] Hipster Triangle: Bond,James Bond,that is,smiles
[17:31] Cursa Charisma grins
[17:31] Allen Kerensky: Big List of RPG Plots by S. John Ross: http://www.io.com/%7Esjohn/plots.htm
[17:31] Cursa Charisma: This is another important question: lack of permadeath in SL
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Allen, a wonderful resource!
[17:32] Anastasia Horngold: yes!
[17:32] Thaiis Thei: there is only lack of permadeath becasue people are too woosy to do it
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[17:32] Cursa Charisma: But the fact is that it's simply not used in most SL RP
[17:32] Allen Kerensky: and lack of a quick new character generator in SL to help people get off and running again in a new persona quickly
[17:33] Anastasia Horngold: hmmm... interesting.
[17:33] Thaiis Thei: that is because of (my favourite thing to pick on ) the evil permission system of doom!!!
[17:33] Allen Kerensky: i have a 96 page character generator book for each genre: fantasy, modern, or sci-fi - takes about 2 hours to do one character.
[17:33] Reiko Soyinka: I'm getting somewhat irritated with the reliance on...
[17:33] Reiko Soyinka: older forms of roleplay.
[17:33] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Reiko
[17:34] Reiko Soyinka: The human mind is the fastest character generator in the 'verse.
[17:34] Hipster Triangle: nods
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: Drawing on what is known and familiar is understandable and valuable, but this is a different medium from the tabletop
[17:34] Anastasia Horngold smiles.
[17:34] Allen Kerensky: the human mind also has writers block. Tools like generators can rejumpstart that creative process.
[17:34] Reiko Soyinka: I was stunned when I first heard of using dice in this venue.
[17:34] Reiko Soyinka: done.
[17:34] Cursa Charisma: The question is, what is necessary and sufficient to make new characters and plots in SL
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: Alright, let's move on
[17:35] Cursa Charisma: Hipster?
[17:35] Vooper Werribee: Agreed - there are conventions of tabletop that don't work well in SL
[17:35] Hipster Triangle: ok
[17:35] Hipster Triangle: i still use the chat animation,so ya know im bout ta say something
[17:35] Brooke Rhea: I think it's because you really have to put alot into how your character looks, dresses and other things more in SL than you do in tabletop.
[17:35] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:35] Vooper Werribee: hell! There are even conventions of tabletop (*cough* classes *cough* levels) that don't always work well in tabletop :)
[17:36] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:36] Hipster Triangle: Yes.I have much trouble developing rp scenarios
[17:36] Hipster Triangle: because,you can never please everyone
[17:36] Hipster Triangle: and some are not made for rp
[17:37] Hipster Triangle: done,sighs
[17:37] Cursa Charisma nods
[17:37] Anastasia Horngold: I've had a lot of trouble coming up with scenarios because...
[17:37] Anastasia Horngold: in SL there aren't any real "needs" to motivate me.
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: Very interesting
[17:38] Thaiis Thei: really?
[17:38] Anastasia Horngold: Characters are driven by needs for food, shelter, clothing, love, sex, power, money, --not necessarily in that order
[17:38] Hipster Triangle: you have never Dreamed Anastasia?
[17:38] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:38] Cursa Charisma: Vooper, you're not the only Maslow fan
[17:38] Anastasia Horngold: Those needs don't really apply here
[17:38] Thaiis Thei: I mean about no needs
[17:38] Thaiis Thei: sure they do
[17:39] Joan Vhargon: But we simulate those needs
[17:39] Thaiis Thei: but mostly as the top level ones
[17:39] Cursa Charisma: Does this relate to the lack of permadeath, Anastasia?
[17:39] Joan Vhargon: I gave a talk on this last year.
[17:39] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[17:39] Brooke Rhea: I find that they do. And I've used those needs quite a bit to interact with characters.
[17:39] Anastasia Horngold: I don't think I've been able to simulate those needs and feel them in any way here.
[17:39] Hipster Triangle: Permadeath,or talk of depresses me
[17:39] Thaiis Thei: why?
[17:40] Hipster Triangle: I want to Live,an enjoy
[17:40] Cursa Charisma: I'm trying to get at the lack of a sense of intense character motivation that Anastasia is encountering
[17:40] Hipster Triangle: Life is just a little while
[17:40] Cursa Charisma: Welcome, DylanFox
[17:40] Dex Argent: Yo!
[17:41] Hipster Triangle: SL,or RL
[17:41] Anastasia Horngold: The only need I have noticed here is wanting to connect to people, and that can be very challenging with our limited capabilities.
[17:41] Cursa Charisma: So you're talking about ooc player needs, rather than ic character needs?
[17:41] Anastasia Horngold: My avi isn't actually hungry, or cold, or such
[17:41] Vooper Werribee: mine is!
[17:41] Anastasia Horngold: haha
[17:41] Brooke Rhea: Neither are characters in a story.
[17:42] Brooke Rhea: In any fiction
[17:42] Vooper Werribee shivers
[17:42] Cursa Charisma: So you'd like to get more structure on that sort of thing, Anastasia? Systems like HTCS can do that, and the SR meter at Vooper's sim
[17:42] Hipster Triangle: anyone got a Blanket?
[17:42] Brooke Rhea: It's how you define your sense of reality in the cooperative fiction.
[17:42] Brooke Rhea: I think I do but it's not transferable ;-)
[17:42] Hipster Triangle: darn
[17:42] Anastasia Horngold: As much as I feel immersed in the SL environment at times, it's emotional/aesthetic rather than visceral.
[17:42] Medea Warwillow: Yes, all of those transferred realities can come to life in SL with meters and such.
[17:43] Anastasia Horngold: Hmm, meters. I don't know!
[17:43] Dex Argent: Hm.
[17:43] Anastasia Horngold: Well, I've said my piece on that. next?
[17:43] Hipster Triangle: I hate meters,myself
[17:43] Joan Vhargon: spits over shoulder
[17:43] Dex Argent is totally anti-meter.
[17:43] Hipster Triangle: grins
[17:44] Bletaverse Server: Image received. Visit http://bletaverse.com/Cursa%20Charisma to see your post.
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: Excellent - we have identified a definite topic for future discussion: "Meters - Do They Have to Suck?"
[17:44] Anastasia Horngold: rofl
[17:44] Joan Vhargon: laughs
[17:44] Hipster Triangle: Yes,they do,for the record,lol
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: OK, Allen's turn
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: hehe
[17:44] Vooper Werribee: :)
[17:44] Allen Kerensky: rl crisis skip me
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: kk
[17:44] Cursa Charisma: Joan?
[17:45] DylanFox Petrov accepted your inventory offer.
[17:45] Joan Vhargon: Joan's pre-typed answer:
[17:45] Joan Vhargon: I have a lot of troble coming up with scenarios. The hardest part is player buy in and teaching the "history" of the scenario. How do we teach history? By telling stories.

I have found that the most successful RP scenarios I have been in were ones in which I was taught what was going on and then I dove in.**
[17:45] Reiko Soyinka grins
[17:45] Joan Vhargon: trouble*
[17:45] Hipster Triangle: nods
[17:46] Joan Vhargon: whispers, "PLAYER BUY IN was suppsed to be in all caps"
[17:46] Vooper Werribee: Ah yes! I have seen the situation sooo many times where someone sets up a plot - probably in a way which thaey feel is subtle yet intriguing and everyone eignores it
[17:46] Dex Argent: Presentation is everything.
[17:46] Cursa Charisma: Yes, and background material is seen as "homework" and shunned
[17:46] Anastasia Horngold: "subtle yet intriguing" ! lol
[17:46] Reiko Soyinka: Yes...
[17:47] Frog Hoppers and Satins Friends Group Notice: Hi everyone gonna need your company tonight Erin has laft me to do bogarts by myself...hope to see you there
[17:47] Reiko Soyinka: yes...that is another peeve...
[17:47] Joan Vhargon: Its amazing that in a medium that is largly text based people still don't want to read.
[17:47] Dex Argent: There seem to be two main groups of RP'ers: Storytellers, and Casual
[17:47] Vooper Werribee: The best way to get player buy in to is do the set up blatently and OOC
[17:47] Cursa Charisma: But it is true, nonetheless
[17:47] Reiko Soyinka: I'm gonna come play in your sim but don't you dare ask me to know what it is you are playing.
[17:48] Joan Vhargon: Voopers comment is what I'm speaking of. Teaching.
[17:48] Dex Argent: The storytellers want background and step-up and like complex and intriguing storylines.
[17:48] Vooper Werribee: Event today at this time: background is this: you character wants to be here for these reasons: if you want to have fun come along - if you really don't think your character 'would do that sort of thing' that's your problem and your choice - you'll miss the fun! :)
[17:48] Cursa Charisma: Good, Vooper
[17:48] Hipster Triangle: nods
[17:48] Joan Vhargon: But...
[17:49] Allen Kerensky: gotta go folks, sorry... have a good evening and thanks! looking forward to the transcript
[17:49] Cursa Charisma: Peace, Allen
[17:49] Dex Argent: The Casual players don't want to be bothered with long-term stories and just RP their characters in the moment.
[17:49] Joan Vhargon: I want to get back to history
[17:49] Thaiis Thei: Bye allen
[17:49] Hipster Triangle: bye allen
[17:49] Anastasia Horngold: bye allen!
[17:49] Brooke Rhea: I agree with Dex. and For hte most part I don't build plots with them in mind.
[17:49] Joan Vhargon: Five people come to a loose RP with 5 different histories. Can it work?
[17:49] Medea Warwillow: Bye Allen!
[17:49] Joan Vhargon: Bye allen
[17:49] Brooke Rhea: You just sorta say your "hi"s and walk away.
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: Joan, it can indeed work - but not automatically for any five people
[17:50] Brooke Rhea: And I think it can work Joan, as long as people are interested in others histories.
[17:50] Reiko Soyinka: HOLD it...
[17:50] Reiko Soyinka: talk about only one thing, please.
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: The question is background
[17:50] Cursa Charisma: How much is needed, how much will people seek out in practice
[17:50] Joan Vhargon: Ahhh yes. Sorry about that.
[17:51] Anastasia Horngold: It was Joan's turn, I think?
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: Yes, we're discussing points Joan raised
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: Shall we move on?
[17:51] Joan Vhargon: My comment was about buy in.
[17:51] Cursa Charisma: OK
[17:52] Cursa Charisma: Let's focus on buy-in
[17:52] Cursa Charisma: Immersing players in a game session
[17:52] Dex Argent: If you want a storyline to work, the GM has to put the time in. The Storyteller players will be all over it; The Casuala will say :Huh?"
[17:53] Reiko Soyinka: Afater the last week...
[17:54] Joan Vhargon: Actually everone has to put the time in. That's the key
[17:54] Dex Argent: Identify your audience.
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: Good, Dex
[17:54] Brooke Rhea: Most people aren't going to though. So you have to just work with the people who are, and then just "use' the rest when it works for oyu.
[17:54] Dex Argent: Always the key to good writing.
[17:54] Cursa Charisma: (and sorry for ignoring your tag earlier)
[17:54] Reiko Soyinka: I think the casuals are more like to say...is there someplace where we can insert some fighting...
[17:54] Dex Argent: (No problem, Cursa)
[17:55] Reiko Soyinka: Comment on what Brooke said...
[17:55] Cursa Charisma: Then you have to structure your scenario to allow an outlet for that if you want casuals joining
[17:55] Joan Vhargon: thinks (insert weapon here)
[17:55] Dex Argent: Indeed, Keiko/
[17:55] Anastasia Horngold: Speaking of time, have we really been here 2 hours?
[17:55] Cursa Charisma: So far, Anastasia
[17:55] Anastasia Horngold: I'm going to have to go.... sadly!
[17:55] Cursa Charisma: Then let's continue this discussion next week
[17:55] Reiko Soyinka: /nod
[17:55] Dex Argent: But, if you want a story with storytellers, pardon me, but who cares about the Casuals?
[17:55] Hipster Triangle: me also.RL work calls,has been most interesting
[17:55] Cursa Charisma: We still have a pile of questions to address
[17:56] Anastasia Horngold: Yes, and many I'm very intereste in hearing you talk about.
[17:56] Anastasia Horngold: You all.
[17:56] Reiko Soyinka: There is a problem, Brooke...
[17:56] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Dex, as you said, identify your audience. Many rp groups are seeking a broad and varied audience
[17:56] Hipster Triangle: nods,on other questions
[17:56] Brooke Rhea: And what's that Reiko?
[17:56] Cursa Charisma: Alright, thank you all for participating, and the transcript will be available shortly
[17:56] Joan Vhargon: These have been very good questions and a nice format. Thank you Anastasia.
[17:56] Vooper Werribee: Thanks for starting this discusioin Ana
[17:57] Anastasia Horngold: Thanks Joan, my pleasure.
[17:57] Reiko Soyinka: Most groups identify their players....then close their doors to any new ones.
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: I hope you all feel self-actualized
[17:57] Hipster Triangle: some want to RP,some dont,those that do ,get involved,I do,anyway
[17:57] Anastasia Horngold: lol
[17:57] Cursa Charisma smiles broadly
[17:57] Medea Warwillow: Thank you Anastasia! *applause*
[17:57] Joan Vhargon: So we are going to continue next week where we left off?
[17:57] Cursa Charisma: Yes, we'll start with the next question
[17:57] Medea Warwillow: I would say yes.
[17:57] Brooke Rhea: I don't think most do. Never seen anyone in SL really "Close their doors" to new players. Only those who really have nothing to add.
[17:57] Anastasia Horngold: That would be good.
[17:57] Brooke Rhea: I'm sure there are groups out there, but i don't participate in them.
[17:58] Anastasia Horngold: See you all next time, I hopw!
[17:58] Medea Warwillow performs the necessary copy paste for her next answer she has pretyped.
[17:58] Cursa Charisma: On behalf of the Role Play Nexus, and the SL RPG Developers group, once again, thank you all
[17:58] Joan Vhargon: There are many ways to close a door.
[17:58] Brooke Rhea: And I would encourage otherse to not as well.
[17:58] Hipster Triangle: dont be so cold Brooke,smiles
[17:59] Hipster Triangle: see ya'll later,have enjoyed your company,much
[17:59] Brooke Rhea: lol Not sure how it's Cold to say I won't participate in groups that close their doors to players.
[17:59] Dex Argent: I'll RP with anyone; I just have more fun with storytellers on a longterm basis
[17:59] Hipster Triangle: oh,sorry,must haved missed that,smiles
[17:59] Cursa Charisma: Joy of text communication
[17:59] Reiko Soyinka: hehehe, you can't participate in groups that close their doors to others...you can't get into them in the first place.
[18:00] Hipster Triangle: yeah,text,hard ta express your self
[18:00] Brooke Rhea: I have been invited to those type of groups before.
[18:00] Cursa Charisma: But the point is crucial if you want to draw a varied player base - have something for the different types of players you know will come
[18:00] Joan Vhargon: Thats my point. A group that has been together a long time ha stheir own history and chemesrty
[18:00] Hipster Triangle: bye Reiko
[18:00] Dex Argent: Can't be everything to everyone, though.
[18:01] Hipster Triangle: nods
[18:01] Vooper Werribee: That's true Joan - that history and chemistry can be a big hurdle that can prevent many new folk from joining in tho
[18:01] Brooke Rhea: But that doesn't mean they close to other players. I have my crew, and many of us have been rping for a while together. But I'm always looking for a good newbie to join.
[18:01] Medea Warwillow: Yes. And the attitudes of those established players can be either a hindrance or a help to new players.
[18:01] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:01] Joan Vhargon: They never feel like they belong because they don't get the references and they can't draw from them.
[18:01] Brooke Rhea: And I try to give just about anyone a chance.
[18:02] Thaiis Thei: I wont
[18:02] Thaiis Thei: fuck em
[18:02] Dex Argent: Good stories and active GMs can work wonders... just don't compromise and don't dilute.
[18:02] Thaiis Thei: ;)
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: Thank you, Thaiis
[18:02] Cursa Charisma: *smh*
[18:02] Medea Warwillow looks for something to throw at Thaiis
[18:02] Joan Vhargon: I would like to continue next week from here.....
[18:02] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:02] Medea Warwillow: ALright, Thaiis will be about to be struck by an airborne object when we return.
[18:03] Cursa Charisma: I'll get the transcript edited asap and Medea will have it up on her most excellent Nexus blog
[18:03] Thaiis Thei: i'll be sure to wear my impenetrable shield that day
[18:03] Dex Argent snickers
[18:03] Medea Warwillow grins
[18:03] Brooke Rhea: brb
[18:03] Cursa Charisma: hb, Brooke
[18:05] Cursa Charisma: So, Vooper, are these worth staying up for?
[18:05] Cursa Charisma grins
[18:05] Vooper Werribee: well, we're still an hour closer in timezones to US than usual
[18:05] Vooper Werribee: so it's only 1am for me
[18:06] Vooper Werribee: Thes eare great discussions though
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Excellent
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Some benefit from the frivolous flights of fancy in the States then
[18:06] Joan Vhargon: I must run. See you all next week.
[18:06] Vooper Werribee: Everytime I attend or even read a transcript I'm reminded that there are so many different ways of viewing RP - and lots of different reasons to do it
[18:06] Cursa Charisma: Peace, Joan
[18:07] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:07] Reiko Soyinka: Bye, Joan.
[18:07] Medea Warwillow: Bye Joan
[18:07] Cursa Charisma: Got to keep checking the pulse of the market and the medium
[18:07] Reiko Soyinka: Those questions are making me think in ways I don't normally...
[18:08] Reiko Soyinka looks at where hipster was sitting...
[18:08] Reiko Soyinka: I normally prefer slitting throats.
[18:08] Vooper Werribee:
[18:09] Vooper Werribee: It's interesting to note the reaction to Meters as well
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: Yes
[18:09] Medea Warwillow: Yes..
[18:09] Brooke Rhea: backish for a few minutes
[18:09] Vooper Werribee: I like your suggestion for a talk o nthat topic Cursa :)
[18:09] Cursa Charisma: We definitely need to address that
[18:09] Brooke Rhea: then I need to run to dinner
[18:09] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:09] Brooke Rhea: but Yes I hate meters as well.
[18:10] Reiko Soyinka: I'm seeing fewer and fewer people wearing meters.
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: OK, Brooke, you've nourished your mind, now nourish your body, hehe
[18:10] Dex Argent: If I wanted to play video games, I'd be all over meters. But, I don't, so I'm not.
[18:10] Vooper Werribee: wow - *hate*
[18:10] Brooke Rhea: lol
[18:10] Vooper Werribee: that is a strong word
[18:10] Cursa Charisma: The question is, Dex, whether meters have to just be video game imports, or can they actually benefit rp
[18:10] Vooper Werribee: but is used in conjunction with meters so much
[18:10] Dex Argent: Haven't seen it yet.
[18:11] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:11] Vooper Werribee: :)
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: So, let's test the hypothesis
[18:11] Dex Argent: And, some meters create massive lag.
[18:11] Medea Warwillow: And there is a distinction to be made between roleplay meters and solely combat meters.
[18:11] Thaiis Thei: that only means the meters are poorly cooded
[18:11] Vooper Werribee: Are people associating meters with twiych style FPS combat
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: Yes, there are meters that do not suit SL at all
[18:11] Cursa Charisma: Yes, Vooper, they are
[18:11] Vooper Werribee: and they are really saying they hate FPS combat play
[18:11] Dex Argent: Yes.
[18:11] Reiko Soyinka: Yes...
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: FPS combat play in SL makes little sense to me
[18:12] Cursa Charisma: The infrastructure is not suitable
[18:12] Dex Argent: Spellfire can -almost- be used just for RP, but it isn't.
[18:12] Reiko Soyinka: It is so visually inept...
[18:12] Reiko Soyinka: Oh, Dex...
[18:12] Dex Argent: Hm?
[18:12] Vooper Werribee: Heheh - yes - very funny to watch - if you can keep up wuth the lag
[18:12] Reiko Soyinka: I'm not sure, but wasn't Spellfire the meter that was "copied"?
[18:13] Dex Argent: I have no idea, Reiko
[18:13] Dex Argent: I use it at Sylvhara because I have to.
[18:13] Cursa Charisma nods
[18:13] Reiko Soyinka: I don't really either, but some old timers won't use some meter because it was copied.
[18:13] Dex Argent: But, I always scram when a fight breaks out.
[18:14] Dex Argent: I think I knowthe meter you're thnking of.. but I don't remember what it was called.
[18:14] Reiko Soyinka: I hide when a fight breaks out.
[18:15] Dex Argent: Hiding never works: you have to leave the sim. :-/
[18:15] Reiko Soyinka: Not if you are an admin...then you have to stay and hide.
[18:15] Vooper Werribee: Well, I must leave now too ...
[18:15] Dex Argent: Dragons do not respect non-coms and bystanders
[18:15] Vooper Werribee is worried a fight is about to break out
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: Sweet dreams, Vooper
[18:15] Cursa Charisma laughs
[18:15] Dex Argent: Heh
[18:15] Cursa Charisma: Brazen!
[18:15] Vooper Werribee: thanks again for organising and chairing today Cursa
[18:15] Reiko Soyinka: Sleep well, Vooper...
[18:16] MistressBrazen Bondar: hey there
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: NP, Vooper
[18:16] Medea Warwillow: Hey Brazen
[18:16] Vooper Werribee waves
[18:16] Reiko Soyinka: Ohai, Brazen.
[18:16] Cursa Charisma: Round 2 should be good as well
[18:16] MistressBrazen Bondar: hi Reiko
[18:16] MistressBrazen Bondar: Medea
[18:16] MistressBrazen Bondar: thaiis, Dylan fox
[18:17] Dex Argent: Heya, Brazen
[18:17] Reiko Soyinka: Brazen, you missed a good one.
[18:17] Thaiis Thei: Hi Brazen
[18:17] Dex Argent: I'm going to go see what, if anything, is shaking at Necro. See yas later.
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Medea, if you're on for a few, I need to relog and then I can edit the transcript
[18:18] Cursa Charisma: Watch out for the tentacles, Dex
(transcript ends)